June 7, 2015

Akatsuki no Yona [Chapter 107]

Haku asks what Yun meant by everyone is gone, and what’s going on. Flustered Yun says that he doesn’t know. “Shina suddenly went into a rebellious stage that he started causing trouble by chopping down the tent with a knife. He would even go laughing haha. Kija called for an emergency meeting. Then, Zeno collapsed that I.. I..” With a deadpan expression, Haku tells him to calm down because based on what he heard, it seems that they are having some sort of fun. Yona tells Yun to tell things in order. Yun says ya..Shina became very strange.. Flashback: Everyone is surprised when Shina suddenly stood up. Yun asked how come the paralysis didn’t take effect. Zeno wondered out loud what’s going on, is it possible that because Shina’s power doesn’t have an effect on him so the opposite reaction is also comparatively small. Jeha said that means if Shina fights against Zeno, the two would be a stalemate. Zeno told Jeha that is correct and even if Blue dragon’s power doesn’t have effect but if he doesn’t get seriously injured, then it will simply be a staring meeting. Kija is surprised when Shina emits a pressuring power. This made everyone have a headache except for Zeno. Zeno shouted for Shina to stop. Shina asked how come he can bear that kind of power. Zeno told him that he’s too inexperienced since it doesn’t have an effect on him..
To Zeno’s surprise, Shina suddenly took some rope and tied him up. Kija and Jeha can only call out to Zeno as Shina starts to carry Zeno off. Zeno said that he suddenly used this trick, and honestly, he doesn’t have any trick if Shina do this kind of thing because he is very weak. “Hey, I don’t mind a bit if you want to viciously chop me down with a sword, okay? Hey- where are you going? It is forbidden to lend Zeno out.” Yun groaned in pain. End flashback. Yun tells the two that he lost consciousness afterwards and when he woke up, Kija and Jeha had also disappeared since he didn’t see them around. “I totally do not know what to do, I.. If I go and look for them, perhaps Yona and Haku would have returned at that time so what to do.. So, for the meantime, I cooked food and waited for the two of you to come back.” He holds a bowl of cooked rice. Yona claps and says that no wonder it is Yun. Haku comments that he is a model mother. Yun shouts that he isn’t a mother. Yona tells Yun to cheer up for look, she got a bear for him. It seems to be a bear cub. Yun lamely says that she really hunted for a bear. Haku says that in short, they know that the current situation is very bad. Yona says that it isn’t a small issue for Shina to use his power. Yun says that even if it seems that Shina isn’t aware of it but he took away Zeno. But because he lost consciousness, he doesn’t know where they went. Yona says that perhaps the others chased after them so they have to quickly catch up to them.
Yun tells them to wait, he will quickly make some onigiri [packed rice ball] that they can bring with them. Haku tells him to give it up, his way of thinking has become like a mother’s. While walking in the forest, Yona is calling out to the two dragons. Haku asks if he can say some bad words about White Snake. Yun asks why. Haku says that it is because he felt that if Kija hears those bad words, no matter what situation is, he will have an unyielding fighting spirit and do his best to come back. Haku explains that Kija has already gotten used to being called ‘White Snake’ and right now, Kija always calmly answers him. Yun agrees with him but what about Jeha. Haku says that if he said bad words about Jeha, it would be like praising Jeha. Yun comments that illness is serious. Then, Yona sees unconscious Ao on the ground near a tree. Haku says that Shina’s mask is also dropped here. Carrying Ao, Yona tries calling it but there is no response. She worriedly asks what to do for Ao won’t move. Yun says, eating time!! Ao suddenly sits up. Yona exclaims that Yun is amazing for Ao has revived. Yun tells her that if one wants to wake up Ao, just say eat or perhaps, acorn and that will do it. Yona asks Ao if he knows where Shina is. Then, Haku notices the beheaded dragon statue. While he and Yun check it out, Haku notices some stairs leading downstairs. They find it weird and wonder what’s below. Yona says that Shina and the others might have gone inside. Haku tells her to wait and he’ll make some fire.
Soon, Haku heads down and Yona follows. Yona says that it is very deep and she doesn’t know where it will lead. Still outside the door, Yun heard some sound at the side. He turns towards the noise and mentions it to Yona about it when Yona suddenly calls out to him. Yun is surprised that the door is closing. After some panic, Yun throws down something to her. It is an onigiri. And, the door totally closes. Outside, Yun wonders what to do for everyone is shut down below. Haku tries to push the door open but it won’t budge. Yona suggests that they go inside for perhaps they can find a way out there and besides, it is possible that they’ll find Shina and the others.. Haku says that it is obviously that there is a possibility that they are caught which is a very bad situation so how can she be so calm. Yona says that it is because just now, Yun threw the onigiri at her so instead of becoming anxious, she wants to laugh out first. “Besides, with Haku at my side, I’m not afraid of anything.” After a pause, Haku asks if she can repeat what she said one more time. Yona repeats about Yun throwing the onigiri. Haku interrupts by saying about that, he already knows it, ah, forget it, it doesn’t matter. Yona blushes and think that she said some strange things a while ago. Then, her vision becomes a bit fuzzy. To Haku’s surprise, Yona falls unconscious. Haku calls out to her but there is no response. He is relieved that she is still breathing. He curses for what is going on and the entrance won’t open. He looks at Yona and thinks that right now, he can only go search for those guys inside that place.
Meanwhile, Kija and Jeha try to destroy a wall using their punch and kick but it didn’t break. Jeha comments that it won’t break even if they used their power but then, on the other side, they can sense Shina and Zeno. Kija suggests that they look for some other route for it is already certain that those two are here and they’ll definitely get those two out of here. Jeha says that he knows but could it be that there is no other route aside from this one. There are some black figures with eyes crawling out of the path, the wall and the ground. Kija asks what the matter is. Aghast Jeha asks doesn’t he see those things. Holding his hand up his eyes, Kija asks where, where is it. Aghast Jeha asks if he’s the only one who can see it though before, he can vaguely see it. Kija kept on asking what he can see. With a black figure on his shoulder, Jeha says that they are heavily pressuring down his shoulder that it give him a rotten mood. Kija asks if it is the same feeling when they confronted Shina. Jeha asks if he really doesn’t feel anything. Kija says that right now, there is nothing. Jeha says that he feels that if he relaxes his mind a bit, he’ll lose consciousness. Kija tells him to relax for if that happens, he’ll use his dragon hand to give him a sturdy punch. Jeha says that before he loses consciousness, he might lose his life first. Then, Kija notices a crawling centipede. He freaks out over it and asks Jeha to hit it.
Jeha says that with Kija around, he doesn’t have the free time to lose consciousness. Then, the centipede went behind a skull. Kija shouts that it hid behind the skull. Jeha comments that he should be shock over the skull. He wonders out loud if that will also be what will happen to them in the future. Based on the sword near the skeleton, they think that it is from a far off era and perhaps, there was a dispute there. Holding a mask, Jeha says that doesn’t this look familiar. Kija says that it is indeed similar with Shina’s mask. At that other room, the black figures are crawling all over Zeno when he suddenly wakes up with a start. He exclaims that unexpectedly there are many of them here. He notices Shina and calls out to him as Blue Dragon before correcting himself that he is someone similar with Blue Dragon. ‘Shina’ says that he is Blue Dragon and he is Yellow dragon, he knows because they are both dragons. Zeno says it turns out to be like that, the one in Shina’s body is a departed spirit of an ancient times’ Blue Dragon. He felt it since he can use Shina’s power and this place is a former site of the Blue Dragon’s village. ‘Shina’ says that is right, and besides that, it is the tomb where the souls of the past Blue Dragons have their eternal rest. Zeno says that even if it is a mishap but it is triggered by the current Blue Dragon so he apologizes to him on Shina’s behalf and it is almost time for them to bring Shina back.
‘Shina’ says how it can be a mishap. The dragons here who are in eternal rest, have always been oppressed and trampled. They always want to go above ground, throw away their mask, and be free. Free to control this power and the greatest vessel has finally arrived!! And, this is fate. Grabbing Zeno’s hair, ‘Shina’ says that Zeno’s body seems to be very special and it will be a vessel that can be given to them. Zeno says okay. And, the past Blue Dragons reach out for him. Zeno opens his eyes and says but, it is still better to give it up. This surprises ‘Shina’. Zeno explains that for several times, and for hundred times, his heart got stabbed and his body got chopped up into pieces, for hundreds and thousands of years, he pondered on how to destroy himself. Even if he already couldn’t remember but he had already got himself scattered and smashed. If he can give it to him, then he can take it but his life is a monster, and he is afraid that even if this world disappears, he will also definitely not die. The black figures back away. ‘Shina’ asks if he is telling them that they cannot bear the burden of having the Yellow Dragon’s body. Zeno sadly smiles. Then, ‘Shina’ looks at the side and says that there are four people who infiltrated inside. It is White Dragon and Green Dragon, and a couple of humans. They are advancing towards this side, and those people are comparatively easier to take over.  
Comment: And, my ‘Black Dragon theory’ goes kaput. It turns out to be just some Blue Dragon spirits who have grudges over the awful lives. Since Zeno hinted on the possibility that Yona will free him from his ‘power/curse’, maybe those spirits will finally have peace and move on if they saw Yona, Hiryuu’s reincarnation. But then, since they have grudges, they might actually attack Yona for giving them such an accursed life. ^^; And, she probably fainted from the ill-will. And, I’m wondering what are the chances that they’ll go tomb hunting later on for the White and Green dragons so that they can all ‘move on’ as part of Yona’s goal here as Hiryuu. ^^;; And, she’ll be Yona the exorcist. =P And, if it is Blue Dragon vs Yellow Dragon, Blue Dragon wins. Apparently, this guy isn’t that stupid and maybe, Zeno should have asked the others to slice and chop him down instead. ^^; Yona revealed a bit about how Haku is her strength but she seems still clueless about why she said it. Hm..I guess since Kija is pure and stuff like what Zeno mentioned, so he cannot see the grudge spirits, unlike Jeha. I do wonder how exactly they possess people. Was it like what that spirit is doing to Jeha? Trying to make him fall unconscious then possess him? So, was Yona already possessed? But then, they don’t seem to have an effect on Kija. And, why does it seem that Zeno implied that if they possessed him, they can no longer get out of his body? And, based on what the ancestor is saying, it seems that Blue Dragons can use their power while inside someone else’s body. As if, the power is built-in within the soul rather than on the body. And, he seems to imply that they are going to wreak havoc above ground for they want to freely use their power. It will be interesting if the others can have their own powers plus Blue Dragon’s power. And, I almost hope that it was Suwon and others who made that noise that distracted Yun. What would happen if Suwon and others go down below, too. =P I guess this is a ‘rest-goofing around-comedy’ arc after a serious arc since I’m also making up some silly theories ^^; Anyway, the last part of this three part arc will come out after a month from now... Scans by 红莲汉

Word of the day:
We all need a sense of humor! The ability to laugh at yourself is a great asset. He who can’t laugh at his own mistakes, or take those of others with a sense of humor, has too severe a sense of life. ‘Happy are the people whose God is the Lord! Psalm 144:15’ ~ 101 mottos for success by J. Richards and M.S. Fontaine.

154 comments:

  1. Wow!!!!.. Thank You very much :D

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  2. Wow, indeed. What a strange turn of events. I can't imagine what will happen next.

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  3. I'm all over your blog today! (just wait until I get caught up with Skip Beat)

    Thanks as always for your hard work with the summaries. I suppose maybe it's for the best that she didn't power up...I guess. :p Besides, I can't really blame the Blue Dragons for not resting in peace. :p

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    1. Lol! Agree about the Blue Dragons, haha.

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    2. Thanks for reading them, Holly ^-^

      Hehe..is that so.

      True..and wait, if they see Yona as 'Hiryuu' maybe they can fulfill their 'duty'..then Yona and others just bring people there to be possessed and she'll now have a large army of 'dragons'. ^^

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    3. It's possible. I like the idea of Yona making amends as Hiryuu because that allows her to demonstrate strength outside of moral victories and the battlefield. Lol. Can you imagine? The only thing is that I'm guessing the Blue Dragon spirits don't have their powers anymore since I think they lose them when the next in the cycle comes.

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    4. True ^^

      Ah, that's right so maybe the one possessing Blue is only mentioning about himself rather than the others. Anyway, if the dragons knows fighting other than relying on their eyes, then, she got herself some new warriors ^^

      Anyway, that's really pushing things so for now, I think she'll only help them 'rest in peace'.

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    5. Maybe this Blue had extra-serious grudges. By the way, got any ideas about how the spirit world interacts with the natural one in this manga? Right now I'm thinking that the gods exist but they take a generally hands-off approach to what happens to people. What's your take?

      Well, we've been seeing the dragons and Hak tire more in battles lately. More manpower can only help. :p

      No doubt. But I like that from a literary standpoint. :)

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    6. Actually, I have no idea. We have 'super power' people and yes, dragon god who has a hands off approach. That's why I can only joke that Yona is going to be an exorcist. ^^; Most probable thing is sending them off for 'rest in peace'. It might be messy and off tangent if they really interact with the 'real world'. Still, Yona would have 'instant subjects'. ^^

      True...though in that one, it was explained that it is because they are away from Kouka. Their powers seems to be 'only for Kouka'. Hmm..rather than tire more..I think it is when they are really outnumbered like Haku was. I can think that more manpower is also need when they are helping people ala Robin Hood. ^^

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    7. True. :p I agree. That's true but I still found it kind of interesting because we've seen the gods interfering but we haven't really seen anything about people having to protect themselves from the souls of the dead before this. And if an exorcist is needed, they're clearly impacting the real world anyway -albeit as exceptions to the general rule. :p I'm not going to lie, instant subjects would take us straight to confronting Suwon.

      Fair enough. I think that's an extension of the fact that the dragon gods' intent was to protect Hiryuu and what mattered to him. Good point. Do you see them adding new members to the crew?

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    8. True on both. But then, there seems to be no intention to confront Suwon. Isn't it odd that the other dragons, who probably knew what happened, didn't ask Yona about it? Are they just going to do 'follow the leader'. ^^; Even Haku is doing that.

      So, I think their powers are a waste since they are limited to mundane things that even 'ordinary people/soldiers' might be able to do..okay, more on the generals. And, they should be 'special'. So, still hoping that the mangaka has a grand plan for them later on than what's happening now. ^^; Since they are 'confined in Kouka' and Yona isn't incline for some sort of civil war/domestic turmoil, most likely, it would have to be against some other country. If that is so, then, most likely, she will have to work with Suwon again.

      Depends if the 'sword' is one of them or not, and if it is a 'thing'. As I mentioned above, if it is an external threat, they might have to team up with Suwon rather than adding new members. Adding new members would probably depend on how grand Yona's goal will be. I would hope that they get some strategist so that they can fight more effectively given their small number. Even if Haku and Yun probably knows about that, but they aren't utilized by the mangaka. ^^;

      Speaking of that, before, I had really hope that one of the dragons is a girl who is interested in Haku so that he won't be too 'taken for granted' by Yona. =P If there is a new member, I hope it is a girl...and not add another guy for her harem. =P

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    9. You're right. :/ Aside from maybe Green, I don't think too many of them have distinct dreams that aren't met by being within the group. Blue has friends, White has his master, and Yellow is reunited with his friends and king (sort of) and he's found something to do. So they (and Hak) don't really have a reason to not follow the leader...

      True. I think this is an unfortunate example of the opposite of what we were saying in the other thread about the plot driving the characters. Unfortunately, like you said, if they're going to wander around Robin Hood style while Suwon leaves them in peace, it's a total waste of the dragons and it kind of proves Hak right that he could've protected her by himself since nobody's after them anymore.

      Honestly, I think that you're right about some outside invading force getting involved (maybe Kai has a really strong ally :p). Idk. I feel like Suwon has been written with enough gray as it is and I'm not sure I'm okay with redeeming him. Yona talking about forgiveness (because we know she's the one who'll decide) falls flat IMO when Hak's the only one who's angry about the murder.

      I actually wasn't a fan of the sword and shield prophecy, but you're right that it could go either way. I completely agree. I'm not sure why they haven't even developed a flare system or something that allows them to communicate out there. That's true. I think the mangaka sometimes forgets about her other characters. :p Yona shedding her obliviousness and becoming a strategist who could compete with Suwon would've been amazing. Plus, like you said, strategy is a skill she could've learned within the group and gradually gotten better at -plus her archery would've worked for me.

      That would've been an awesome development. :D The opportunity was there in Kai with those other girls, but Hak has a one-track mind. Hm. I don't think I'll be satisfied with Yona just changing her behavior and confessing at this point. But of course, another female character would be great. I thought Lily lost some of her personality when she started towards the end with Yona but I really liked Yuri. :p

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    10. Yup..so everything rests on Yona.

      Indeed. But of course, going Robin Hood put her in danger so they are also kind of needed but still..I don't think that kind of dragon powers is needed, say..charity work.

      Ya..iirc, there are two other countries below them. We still do not know what kind of alliances they have. Suwon put some troops on the defense below..is it because Kai is their ally or they just want to take advantage of the situation. Indeed. Actually, after that, do you think Haku would still go berserk when he sees Suwon? Somehow, I was under the impression that it was partly because he thought that Suwon's 'people' = scar dude, tried to kill Yona. He seems to be calm when they met during the fire tribe's rebellion arc.

      Why aren't you a fan of it? Hm..they never thought of it..but then, they used it at the slave ship, right? Indeed..I think that is how it is when the mangaka cannot handle a big scale series. Some characters are just forgotten and only comes back into the story when needed. That's right..and I'm hoping for something like that..but it isn't happening ;_; yet? And if it did now..it would be out of the blue.

      Hehe, is that so. ^^ Do you think that there aren't much 'special' girls in the series because they might outshine Yona? I mean, the people in the series seems to have to be amazed with her like...wow, she can do this and that..when usually, girls are just this and that. So, aside from Lily's bodyguards, iirc, there aren't much 'fighting women/girls'. What do you think?





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    11. "Actually, after that, do you think Haku would still go berserk when he sees Suwon? Somehow, I was under the impression that it was partly because he thought that Suwon's 'people' = scar dude, tried to kill Yona. He seems to be calm when they met during the fire tribe's rebellion arc."

      I don't mean to interrupt but I wanted to add my opinion to this. I don't think Hak actually thought Hiyou was associated with Soo-won. Not once did Hak, Yona, or the others ever mention Soo-won in connection to that guy. Even though Hak didn't actually attack Soo-won back when he saw him out on the battlefield during the fire tribe arc, it was clear that he was quite angry. That was evident by the expression on his face as well as how he griped his weapon. Yona had to issue her command twice before he responded. IMO, Hak attacked him during the water tribe arc because he had been suppressing his anger and pain for far too long. That's never a good thing for the psyche. Add the fact that he wasn't present to protect Yona when Soo-won was there, Hak basically finally broke down. That's why he attacked Soo-won. It didn't have anything to do with Hiyou.

      BTW, thank you so much for your translations. We're very grateful for all your hard work.

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    12. I suppose that’s the natural consequence of this being reverse-harem like that.

      The thing is, IMO, the Robin Hood danger is self-inflicted. But I get what you mean about how the manpower is needed to go Robin Hood and I guess if she’s going Robin Hood the other dragons are useful to have.

      Right. Hm. Good point. It’s definitely possible they’re allies. Kai’s recent destabilizing has me wondering if one of the other two countries is attempting to create political fractures in an effort to take over? Kouka, being on the border, wouldn’t be able to escape such a conflict. Particularly if Suwon intends to regain the lands his father conquered.

      No. I think that the mangaka has Hak resolving to do better. IMO he’s still angry but he’s dealing with it by making Suwon dead to him (i.e. “I don’t know what he’s thinking) because he figures that he’s better able to help Yona when he’s indifferent. He’d already made that decision before the Fire Rebellion so Hak killing Suwon at the first opportunity likely won't be an issue the rest of the way. The panels in the background lead me to believe that the breakdown was about his feelings towards his own betrayal. He just snapped.

      It seemed contrived to me because IMO the sword and shield prophecy was used as cover for the fact that Yona didn’t have any plans for the dragons after gathering them. Hm. I have mixed emotions about flares on the slave ship because while it was creative, I thought that one of the dragons should’ve gotten on as a guard or, better yet, should’ve offered Yona and Yun to the slave ship in exchange for a free ride into Kai. The flares risked tipping Kumji off and dragon telepathy made more sense as Plan A for a stealth mission. They survived through sheer plot armor and luck.
      Yet in situations where they could use a flare system, they don’t. I guess some people just like doing things the hard way. :p

      Yeah. Sometimes that happens when the cast is too crowded. I completely agree. Maybe Yona’s talk about Suwon could be used as a catalyst, but then at this point, like you said, such a development would be really difficult to believe.

      I didn’t think of it that way but IMO you’re on to something. I figured that as a former princess, Hiryuu’s incarnation, distinct hair, etc. that Yona really didn’t need to be propped up as more special. But then again, while Yona does deserve some credit, the praise she gets is disproportionate even within their stated expectations of gender. Do you think any of that has actually translated to Yona being outshone by other female members of the cast though? Lily’s bodyguards lost easily to regular men while Yona put up a decent fight, Yuri didn't have much screen time and Yona killed Kumji, and Lily had a lot to learn from Yona. Do you think the mangaka felt like she couldn't do things like that indefinitely with a regular member of the cast?

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    13. @Starlight (You're not interrupting btw :p), I completely agree with you.

      I think that Yona telling Hak she was fine brought him back during his breakdown and I think he regretted being so beside himself at the sight of Suwon. It was unfortunate the way that was resolved though because I think that Hak's blunt straightforwardness often has people thinking that he's fine even when he's not so I find the reaction of his friends when his pain is out in the open rather uncomfortable to see.

      But yeah.

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    14. @Holly I read a little bit of your conversation with Kat and it had me laughing because we somehow talked alot about these stuff in the past chapters and You kind of said the same things I said^^ I'm so happy to see that not all the readers of AnY are "dumb" fangrils ^^ I mean usually when I check out blogs related to AnY it is all fangirls (yona is awsome the series is a masterpiece ,she is the best female character ever wow amazing) and I on the other hand can only face palm because yes it's good series but it isn't amazing hell no .Alot of elements in this series are poorly handled .I don't want to go in details because I talked about this alot and I feel like a broken records but to make it short ,the story has no plot , the female lead is lacking ,all the characters have a background but none has a goal except fanboy over yona which is lame and hard to get into the characters , I find most of the cities boring because yona comes in there everybody think she is so cool someone gets his ass kicked and that's it . Now if after yona left a certain tribe and said tribe changed to it's core like actual change lasting effects then okay I would think she is badas but all she does is charity work and that's it .I mean for god's sake they even took a kid back home and when I say home I mean kai empire another country .Now I better stop before I go on another long rant ^^

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    15. What I wanted to talk about is yona and the dragons +hak+yun .I think it is so lame how everybody just follow yona blindly as if she is some warrior/general princess when she is a young teenage naive girl who just seen the world for the first in her life just a few months ago . I mean Yona say let's rush into battle where two armies are about to crash they go in ,Yona say let's go into a city full of junkies/zombies let's go . You would think having someone who is 2000+years old and who happen to be there when the country began +a former general would serve some purpose .That they would be there to advise her that she would learn to think like a leader like a king but no they are just "oh you are so cool princess of course whatever you wishes should be done" what the helll !!!!

      You know at some point I thought that yun ,then Jeha then zeno would be the voice of reason . The would who would question yona's choices ,the one who would tell her we can't do this ,we have to do it the other way .But sadly all these guys quickly became her fanboys and that's lame . Let's be real here ,yona's group serve no purpose except fighting and fanboying over her .They aren't active in the story at all .

      The way they try to paint yona as someone so amazing that words can't describe ,honestly I find it very annoying to say the least because she isn't .Times and Times again she proved to be unfit for a leader position ,she is too stubborn and it may be good in some cases but in her case it isn't good .She is emotional ,shown about how she is still influenced by Soo-Won why he became king why he killed daddy all that type of stuff and when they learned that SW was gonna be attacked in the fire tribe arc , She went there to save him to be that's obvious .Always thinking of SW and his motives so whatever moments she has with hak or glares she give SW it doesn't mean a thing to me

      Also she is supposed to be perceptive or something like that yet she doesn't notice hak's suffering not for his one sided love but for SW betrayal . You stated I think that it was annoying how the first thing she says after he breaks down is "Im alright " well I was so pissed when I first read it ,I mean how come this girl think that everything revolve around her yeah it is somehow true . I mean isn't she aware that hak and SW do share a deeper bond than she had with him ,that what he did it probably left a deeper scar in his heart since unlike he doesn't seem to get over it .

      I also was pissed at how Jeha was all like "what are you doing he is our buddy" I mean seriously taking the side of someone you just met when you know hak for longer and you know he doesn't just snap like that . Anyway I just wanted to give some of my thoughts ,it is already long enough and Iike I said I m just like a broken records now ^^

      P.S despite all what I said I do like the manga^^

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    16. @sofia Oh my goodness! I think you’re me! :D I think part of what drives the fangirling is that the anime came out during a season where there wasn’t much decent anime to speak of. But I mean, when you have a gorgeous setting, an amazing male lead, a decent antagonist, action, and all these historical elements I feel obligated to be thoughtful in my critique. :p

      I think you’ve really hit on the parts that bother me. Honestly, Yona seeing the suffering in the Kouka villages would’ve been fine by me if she’d had an overarching goal. I think I said in the other thread that if she’d even been investigating the death of Yu-Hon or seeking to learn more about her father, the charity work wouldn’t have been that bad. It was also a mistake, IMO, to not have Suwon sending people after them.

      The lack of internal conflicts for the dragons is crazy to me because their characters had so much potential for it with the whole distinction between the dragons and their dragon blood. Green, for example, shouldn’t have effectively given up his wish to be free once they left Awa. It’d be interesting to see Green getting mad about going Robin Hood when he wants to finish the mission and go back to the sea or even to see him attempting to run away at times.

      I agree about your opinion on Yona. That’s what makes me feel a little bit uneasy about how this manga’s going to end. There’s a lot of chapters that have felt more episodic than what you’d normally expect to see in a grand epic.

      You should come and talk on the other thread. I’d love to see your thoughts on the sibling theory as well as the speculations on how the story’s going to end.

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    17. @sofia2 I hear you. My position is that Yona could’ve progressed quite nicely if she’d taken a step back and learned. She’s trying to make herself feel better but because she doesn’t know what she’s doing, it often looks like she’s prioritizing her need to feel better over the lives of her friends. And that’s just not attractive in a heroine.

      I said in the other thread that I’m having serious doubts about whether Hak’s former general status was just a talking point to hype him up. Ditto for Zeno’s immortality. We have lovely flashbacks, but facts that should’ve impacted the story (Hak being a general but the generals being swayed by the rumors) simply don’t. I’m not sold on Yona actually learning from them if she doesn’t see a reason to. I mean, Yona doesn’t respect Hak’s accomplishments overall outside of fighting IMO. He tries to give advice, but Yona won’t listen because she’s stubborn and IMO she’s used to disrespecting him and having him give in. She’s also often rescued by the story when she does go along but clearly doesn’t want to like with Yun when she wanted to interfere and the kid died when they didn’t.

      I think you’re right that we’re missing a voice of reason (among other things lol). Yun I think does it the most, but again, he gets a bad deal from the mangaka. Them ignoring Yun’s distress about the tent he sewed when Yona treats her hairpin like a sacred relic is the type of double standard I'm talking about. IMO part of the problem is that the skill of her group allows her to be shielded from the consequences of her bad decisions. She should know by now that even the smallest mistakes can kill a person. But because those guys are incredibly skilled, even poorly thought-out plans like the one we saw in Awa can be executed. True lol. You know, IMO, Suwon’s about the only character who’s demonstrating agency so far.

      I completely agree about all the gushing over how awesome Yona is. The glare business really frustrates me because her old personality involved a lot of tantrum-throwing and nasty comments. Her problem back then wasn’t that she didn’t have a backbone so glaring at people who make her angry isn’t a huge leap in development to me. Similarly, while it was nice that she killed Kumji, I felt like people glossed over how she wasn’t acting from a position of power when she did that. But yeah. It’s very fortunate that Hak has what it takes to be king.

      That’s a good point. I hadn’t even thought about how she went in to save Suwon but you’re right. I know that Yona is passive, but I don’t like how she keeps clinging to her fantasy about Suwon. Real leaders know how to face the world as it is IMO.

      That scene is the reason why I’m on the fence about Hak and Yona as a couple. It’s a great relationship for Yona, but it’s sad to read as a fan of Hak. His love is often forcing him to do things he doesn’t want to do, she refuses to let him leave when he tries, she pines after her father’s murderer, and then she neglects him emotionally to the point where she can’t respond appropriately to his distress as a friend. It’s unhealthy for one person to be giving all the time in a relationship and at least in the palace Hak could take breaks. Yeah, I think that for some reason Yona thinks that Suwon and Hak’s relationship was about her. :/ I completely agree about Green’s response to what happened. That’s why I think that this mangaka often writes things based on what plot elements she wants to hit rather than on what’s realistic in terms of the characters. Stopping your friend from killing somebody is a normal response, but to side with the other person without even hearing your friend out is mindboggling.


      Yeah no worries. We talk about the manga because we care lol.

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    18. I thought the same about you when reading the comments ^^ I’ve to disagree on this one the blind fangirls were there even before the anime .Describing among other things as yona being the greatest heroine and it was like really ???That would be kyouko mogami no ?

      We indeed have all these elements but the reason why I’m ranting most of time is that these elements haven’t been used to their fullest potential and that’s a shame .Honestly , my expectations were betrayed for this manga ,as much as SB always manga to exceed them ,with this story it couldn’t even live up to them .I mean I was expecting an epic historical fantasy/romance .Yet we don’t even have a plot ,the fantasy element most of the time is lacking ,the romance no comment Yona I was hoping she would grow into a warrior princess but she is the furthest thing from it although most of the readers and the characters see her to be that way ….etc

      Well , I already said in previous chapter ,If she saw the suffering and it pushed her to think about changing the system of the country make a proper gov instead of fangirling over SW and trying to be badass then it would be great but she is so narrow minded in everything she does .She comes into town feed the poor ,glare at the feel ,others are oh woow you are amazing then she leaves ? Then what in what way did she change the country can you tell me ? We have never seen trying to act like an actual leader trying to change things ,solving problems from the root that’s yet another reason why she fails as a protagonist .
      Well ,I somehow I agree not just to try to find out more about SW dad and her own father .But try to understand more about her father’s motives as to why he was all about peace to the point where he let the country fall into pieces . But yona throughout the manga ,not once did she actually mourn her father ,what she was so sad about was SW the great love of her life (lol as if a little girl who never left her house ,never knew her « beloved » true colours could know what true love is) the scene that made me feel so angry and that’s the sword dance was all so funny because Jeha said did yona live a tragic love or something and I ‘m like dude yeah she think she did but that was just a puppy dog love that somehow still here .In NG life the author did a much greater job with the feelings and the relationships but it is what it is .
      Anyway back to what I was saying all along the story we have only seen her question SW motives his feelings like I said it’s to the point where she justified her dad’s murder WTH ??? in yona’s mind it’s always all about SW and I feel bad for the dragons and co who follow her thinking that she is some great princess while they don’t know that what motivate her is SW and to me it’s a fact .

      To keep it short ,I can’t think too highly of a person who think and value her dad’s murder ,is seen to feel other suffering yet can’t even manage to understand or connect with the one person who was always there .

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    19. Well ,I’ve talked about the dynamics in the group before and I told kat how to me there was no real relationships in the group .Like you said we have interesting characters each with a proper background and personality you would think there would be more conflict or excitement revolving them but no the guys don’t even have a goal of their own it’s all about yona for yona ,just yona and if she was really great I would somehow bear with it but she is not . I compared AnY with OP which you also did I think . That’s what I told kat ,in op each character of luffy’s crew has a goal .Zoro to be the strongest ,sanji to find all blue ,nami to draw a map of the world …etc and throughout their journey you see that each of the character is getting closer to his dream in one way or another yet at the same time they got so close to each other and became so close to luffy to the point where they don ‘t mind putting aside their dreams for him to achieve his dream all of which is painted in a wonderful way ( when ace died and nami for example said that she has to be a top notch navigator because luffy want to be the pirate king ,or when zoro through his pride in front of mihawk or almost got killed by kuma just for luffy and his dream) anyway you get my point ,in yona they joint hey fanboy when they shouldn’t they have no dream at all because Jeha freedom thing is a wish not a dream . That’s one of the main thing why their relationships are so shallow even when they try to portray them as being deep .

      Oh well if you check out previous chapters ,you would see that I’m usually pretty active but these days not so much because i’m getting tired of yona’s character and where this is all going after hak’s breakdown I expected some great change in the dynamics not in the romance but in their relationships as a whole or yona finding a proper goal but no so it’s like yeah I’m tired of expecting and a strange thing is I’m commenting under other summaries ,it’s like my opinion on the last AnY chapter is under the last summary of SB ^^
      About the siblings you mean the dads right cause I always had this crazy theory that maybe yona’s dad refused SW who is royalty to marry yona maybe because they are siblings ? because he was okay when yona pretended to be her lover and he is a commoner or maybe he just felt SW=war . Anyway about the dads I refused to believe that Iru just killed his brother ,if he really did it maybe SW dad had a hand in yona’s mother murder what do you think ? About the end no idea ,either SW stays as king marry Lili and yona is the queen of the people or SW goes and she becomes queen whatever I’m just gonna go with flow .


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    20. Ya she could’ve but she did not and I doubt that she will we are at 100+chapters and this series won’t make it to 200 chapters I’m sure of it not enough material left .I agree yona say that she will fix all what her father did wrong ,but first of all she isn’t fixing anything second you are right she is also doing whatever she think she is doing when in reality what she does amount to nothing in the great scheme of things she does because she used to do nothing in the past .Do you remember the famous honey licking scene she recalled SW and yun saying « you don’t know anything » so it’s safe to assume that yeah she is trying to fix that ,which isn’t wrong but the way she goes about is a NO NO .
      That’s true and she does that knowing that in battle she isn’t a major player ,like how she rushed to save SW and they got surrounded she didn’t get a scratch while other got badly beaten .She knows that others would shield her ,she knows she isn’t a powerhouse yet she insist on going yet again she fails as a heroine and a queen .

      Well , it isn’t hype because we have seen a little of hak’s leadership and it was pretty good .When he was in the wind tribe with yona and the fire tribe attacked the way he took control of the situation and got the tribe under control was nice .We have yet to see something like that from yona ,the girl acts badass but it’s all fluff to me she fails on so many aspects .You are right about how she doesn’t value hak real potential .The dude is more than about fighting he actually knows what’s like to rule ,he understand know how politics and royalty work . Like this scene in the recent chapters when they invaded kai .She was all « I wonder if he did for the sake of the water tribe » and hak was like « like hell he did it for that ,he planned all of it with great care and the water tribe issue was nothing but an excuse » He understand how the world actually works he faced reality about SW ,which didn’t not ,I mean you would think that him killing her dad would enough to make her realize that the dude does nothing in a random way but always plan ahead ,always has an ulterior motive but no i guess no that’s not enough .Honeslty I gave up on trying to make sense of her character but I just wish the characters would cease to fanboy fangirl over her because that makes me even more annoyed

      About zeno ,I honestly don’t see what purpose about him being the first yellow dragon .Yeah his life was sad and tragic but I’m gonna be honest I don’t care .He brings nothing to the story ,I thought that maybe since he was there ,he would teach yona about how to be a true leader stuff like that advise her maybe help shinah with his powers ,shed some light on the prophecy .But no he is just the eternal 17 years old and it’s like really ??? It would’ve been better if he was a girl who was into hak that would’ve been way better I mean yona was previously a man so why can’t a dragon be born as a girl ?
      If the author had been smarter we with the help of hak and zeno she would not only be stronger combat wise but she would have the mind of a true general .But sadly she ignored all of these options and the result is current yona .

      I agree what saved yona from dying is the skills of her group and that alone ,by herself she wouldn’t survive that’s for damn sure .And another thing that pisses me off is that yona is taking all credits for being this awsome savior when the guys who gets the job done are the boys . I was really when zeno

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    21. I was happy when he was introduced and he told yona « just what is your goal » i thought oh great someone who would dare question her instead of just following around like a puppy but no it wasn’t only that moment .
      You explained my view on the hak/yona pairing perfectly ^^ the love the devotion is one sided ,yona take hak for granted that’s a thing you can’t argue about .Throughout the story she gave alot of thoughts to SW his motives his goal and blah blah blah but can you please give me an example of yona giving really deep thoughts to hak ,to his feelings and suffering because the i want to protect hak to see him smile i’m sorry but to me it’s all just fluff . She assume that the dude is hers and sadly hak has given her no rease to think otherwise .Their relationship isn’t sick but it’s unhealthy because hak is doing all the job in the relationship .Never have we seen yona work for hak’s sake ,anyway you get what i mean .And yeah when i see how she treats him i think to myself he is way too good for her and maybe they shouldn’t be together .
      Well in modern times yeah if you have a friend who tries to kill someone you stop him because there are courts and trials and jails stuff like that to punish criminals .But back in the day it ‘s an eye for an eye you ,if someone did you wrong you gotta settle it by yourself .So to me GD was wrong in that scene because he called someone he just met his « ally » choose to trust him and not the guy with whom he has been with for quite sometimes .I mean when he said « maybe you have a reason to that » it is like what the hell dude ,did you ever see hak snap and try to murder people .You would think he would put two and two together and realize who the dude was and let SW meet his maker but no he had to butt in .Oh god if he had his spear heads would fly that’s too bad .
      ^^

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    22. Yes, starlight, he's angry at the fire tribe arc but I'm just curious why is it different from now. I think it is more than just his suppressed anger and pain suddenly breaking out at that point. There has to be some other factor to it. So, I thought it is the scar guy. True, it wasn't established that he is related to Suwon but on that scene, he is attacking Yona and Suwon is there.

      Perhaps, yes, Haku didn't think of it as any relation between the two but I think that triggered something which made Haku berserk. Perhaps, overlapping what happened before when Yona was under attack and Suwon being there as the one responsible. It kind of make him re-live that time.

      Thanks for reading ^-^

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    23. That's true, Holly.

      Perhaps, we still don't know much about the other countries. I actually thought we'll know more about the Kai royalty during the previous arc on what they are like, but we are limited to the soldiers and then, that 'dragon powers are only effective within the country'. So, I can say that the focus would be more on defense rather than offense. Meaning the story would be more on some country attacking them and they'll protect it...with a likely possibility with Suwon and others. I think that if Suwon plans to conquer the three countries, then Yona and others can only just watch since her dragons are 'useless' outside of Kouka.

      Ah..true..at the latter part, it is more on his own betrayal than Yona's..though I would think of it as like this: scar guy attacks Yona then he sees Suwon there. He recalls that time then probably, re-lives it.

      I see. True. Perhaps, it is just for the 'story' or rather, the mangaka not fully using the things that she has earlier introduced?

      No, I mean the mangaka is deliberately not creating female characters who is at par or better than Yona since Yona is the 'lead'. The others are not that impressive compared to Yona, as you've mentioned. So, for the people in the world, Yona is already 'something' as a female so they are all praising her and everything. And yes, as you mentioned, it is a reverse harem so the female lead has to be the only 'special' one ^^ Of course, I'm thinking that if there is and possible love interest, at least, Haku would be appreciated. ^^

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    24. Hehe, sofia, Yona did thought of Haku..his survival so she went to find the dragons. After that...they are looking for trouble. ^^; Hmm..could it be that she only appreciates/worries about him when he's injured/near dead?

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    25. I'm not saying that she didn't or she still doesn't think of his safety .What I'm saying is the extent of her concern for him is rather shallow compared to the amount of thoughts she give SW .Take the breakdown for example why the hell did she say "i'm alright" doesn't she realize that yeah he is angry because of what he did to her ,but he was betrayed as well he is hurt I think way more than yona . I mean we even saw it in the kids chapter when Hak said about becoming stronger and studying more to be worthy of SW .He didn't want to improve for yona but for SW .He put aside his feelings and let her be with him because he love them both .

      Yona like I said is supposed to be aware of the pain and anger of others yet she seems to be blind when it comes down to hak .And yeah it 's seems like she tend to worry when he gets injured or there are other girls around that's why it would've been better if yellow dragon was a girl who happen to be into hak .But sadly that's not the case T_T

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    26. Ah, I see, sofia. Maybe he is like ah..her security blanket? And yes, she didn't think of that or else, why would she say that =P As Holly mentioned, Yona is under the impression that what's going on between Haku and Suwon is about her. Maybe she didn't notice/know it before when they were hanging out together. Iirc, she wasn't there when they are having those kind of talk. It doesn't help as you always mention that they don't talk about these things.

      Lol...true. Well, that is a common shoujo lead trait = not knowing the feelings of the one who is always with them.

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    27. Well , I don't know what she think he is ,but it's clear that she think he will always be there no matter what .The thing is that she seems to think little of the guy's feelings yeah yeah protect him ,his smile blah blah blah but what about what is eating him on the inside and I'm not talking about the one sided love .

      It shows that in a way the girl is self centred I mean even GD noted at one point that SW is someone cared about a lot yet never have I seen yona actually think about the consequence of SW betrayal on hak's mind and heart .It is always SW me SW me but again the girl didn 't care about her own dying dad why would she care about hak .

      Yup ,you would think yona would try to sit down and understand more of hak's feelings and thoughts but nope the onlyone being aware of such things is hak ,who always pay attention to what she feels making sure to never hurt her even if it crushes his heart in the process .

      Again yona is supposed to be special blah blah blah so either you are perspective about everybody or you are not guys who came into the group for 2seconds understood more about hak than she did in 10+years and that's sad .And please don't say it's because he is being a bully ,can you tell me that him taking arrows ,risking his life ...etc for her is enough to make her doubts of his real feelings because he is teasing her for not being sexy which she isn't .

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    28. @sofia2 Haha. Oh really? I’ll defer to you on that then. ^^ Yeah I love Kyouko. I think that Kyouko’s actually a top-notch example of how a heroine can start off weak (but likeable) and become awesome without necessarily being a fighting type. It’s too bad Yona wasn’t modeled more after her. But then again, Skip Beat’s mangaka is good with characters. TCP is also in my all-time.

      I hear you. Betrayed expectations are rough since we can all agree that the source material is there for this to have been amazing. Yeah, I was hoping for a warrior princess and I guess she’s trying and she will, but I have a difficult time buying her development in that direction at this point. I’m hoping for a satisfying ending though.

      Yes. Her approach to leadership is very problematic, but I think that Yona opts for it because to address the root of things would mean re-examining her own assumptions about society. Things like the Kouka citizens’ unhealthy dependency on the upper classes, about whether it’s right for some people to have more power than others for reasons other than merit, about the systematic issues that caused many of these young men to become the roving bandits we’re seeing in the first place. Yona, as we see in her treatment of Hak IMO, is actually one of the most classist characters in the story. Putting out fires is a step forward in that she’s thinking beyond her hair, but at the same time her Batman-like handling of Kouka’s issues shows how limited she is because IMO her noblesse oblige approach to social reform actually reinforces the same power structures that are causing a lot of the misery. The thing is, Yona doesn’t disagree with Kouka’s set up: only with how certain generals are managing their tribes. And at that, she’s not in favor of empowering to the people to the point where she’s willing to challenge or replace the generals in general. Or even express a desire to.

      So in a way, I think it does make sense. The charity work is primarily about helping Yona feel like she’s doing something and the suffering villagers are largely props in Yona’s quest to become a stronger and better person. She’s not actually there to *do* the work although she may go back and make amends later as queen. Or at least that’s my take on it. Like you were saying to Kat, Yona’s still extremely selfish.

      It undermines her claims to being a great protagonist I agree.

      Ideally, she would’ve been planning to get revenge or to recruit foreign support for her takeover of the throne…or something. But even if she didn’t feel ready to do all of that, there was no reason for her to not be proactive about learning more about what happened with Yu-Hon. Well, in Yona’s world, apparently it was mostly just her and Suwon who lived in a dreamy universe. Haha. Agreed.

      Yes. Her justifying of her father’s murder was very disturbing to watch. Well, puppy dog love that has allowed her to be content with injustice. :p Actually, Yona considered her father a coward in chapter 1. She might’ve just applied that to his reasons for being pacifist without considering the possibility that maybe there’s an enemy out there that Il knew they couldn’t fight. Giving the generals autonomy in their own lands might’ve been a matter of political trade-off since micromanaging wouldn’t have flown after his anti-war stance.

      I still maintain that the prophecies were contrived. If instead we had a group of men with freewill who she needed to convince of her cause, I don’t think we get the same result here. You're so right about the dwelling on Suwon. My issue with her is that she thinks about him so much, but she still doesn’t seem any closer to understanding him than when she first began. It's understandable for closure, but after a while...

      100% agreed.

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    29. @sofia3 That’s a good point. My comparison for OP was more about Nami being a contributor despite not being the strongest fighter on the ship, but the group dynamics are also worth exploring too. I think maybe what’s happened is that the mangaka really wants the reader to like Yona so she tries not to dwell on Yona’s faults too much. Because I think part of why the OP dynamics are so good when they interact, besides the fact that the crew members are their own people, is that Oda doesn’t hesitate to poke fun at the flaws of his characters whereas we see kid gloves in the handling of Yona IMO. But because we’re supposed to like Yona, I think that the other characters fanboy (lol) and pump her up to help us think the same thing. Like with how we know that Yu-Hon’s a strong general from how we see other characters reacting to his name and to the fact that Suwon was his son.

      Fair enough lol. I’m 20+ chapters behind SB so I’ve got to get caught up before I can start commenting on it. Rest assured I will be in those threads soon. :p

      See I’m fairly certain that Il had a reason for refusing Suwon, but I’m not sold on them being siblings. I think that Il was just a lot less hung up on social status than, say, Yona for instance. Despite what I said earlier, Kouka does have a certain amount of social mobility because absolutely no one besides Yona and Hak consider Hak as second-tier because he’s a commoner. Especially now that he’s proven himself to be exceptional. As a general, Hak would’ve had some position by then as well. I think in Hak’s case that Il just had a good sense of people’s character.

      I tend to think that Il would’ve killed his brother either in self-defence or because Yu-Hon was up to something sinister. Yona’s mother was killed by rebels close to Il’s ascension, so I tend to think that any rebels they would’ve had at that point would’ve been Yu-Hon supporters. Fair enough lol.

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    30. @sofia Good points. Well, it's kinda strange to me how it seems like nothing Yona should've known has translated over. Even if she can't wash clothes or cook, it seems like if she grew up with the nobles she should at least know how to read people. True. I didn’t really like Vivi (“Everyone please stop fighting!” and all my goodwill evaporated…) but I actually thought that what she told Luffy about losing face in order to save his crew member was an incredibly profound lesson about leadership…I wish Yona would put aside her need to be acknowledged and would instead focus on making her harem’s job easier. That’s also why I’m extremely uneasy about her getting a power-up.

      You’re right. It isn’t hype because Hak’s character makes sense –the GD fiasco aside. I still think that his status is underplayed in the story but that might be a problem with the writing then. If Hak is the strongest general and he’s known as Yona’s personal bodyguard, then I don’t understand how Suwon and his advisers are able to make the story of Hak killing the king and fleeing with Yona stick with a group of supposedly politically savvy men. I was saying in the other thread that we should’ve seen a meeting or an after-hours chat at the bar where we could’ve seen that the generals aren’t fooled by the cover story but they’re playing politics. When you backstab each other as routinely as the nobles allegedly do, you have to know who you’re plotting against, yet Wind is the only one who catches on.

      You’re so right about Hak and Yona’s cluelessness towards him. That’s actually one of the reasons why I tend to think that the manga went awry after they left Fuuga. That, IMO, should’ve been the moment where Yona realized how valuable Hak is and I think that their interaction there should’ve reflected the fact that Yona was in no position to dictate anything. Things have been messy every since.

      Don’t even get me started on Yona and Suwon. It bugs me so much how she clings to that hairpin when Suwon was prepared to let her die after he murdered her father. She’d rather cling to a fantasy that was largely in her head than face the truth. Yona does have potential as a character but I don’t see how she’ll get there when everybody is too mesmerized by her to say anything.

      Zeno has shown flashes of being more than what he seems. You’re right that his regression was a wasted opportunity to bring some maturity and gravitas to the quest. I don’t know. On the one hand I like the idea of having a girl dragon who likes Hak for the tension and plot-forwarding. But I feel like Yona needs to recognize that Hak isn’t a toy or an object for her to use. Her getting concerned over other girls liking Hak feels like a child who starts screaming when another kid at the daycare picks up the toy she wasn’t playing with. :p


      You’re right. All the pieces were there.

      You’re right about Zeno. I mean, I can buy that after living 2000+ years he’s become more laid-back about things but it’s really frustrating how he acts sometimes like their peer, when like you said, an adviser role was in order.

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    31. I know that love triangles can be extremely tough to pull off believably, but I think you’re really nailing the issues that bother me about the love triangle and what that’s meant to Hak. I think that Yona’s sacrifices with Hak like her plans to free him and her refusal to let him know that she’s jealous are self-inflicted. Freeing him isn’t as selfless as she’s making it sound when she won’t let him go until she’s become someone respectable. Plus, all she has to do is ask him if he wants to stay. Hak’s a blunt guy. The whole controversy could be cleared up in 2 seconds if she wasn’t so determined to complicate things.

      You’re right that it definitely raises questions about whether or not they should be together with this dynamic. Yona, as I and others have mentioned before, is very self-centered in the way she processes things. Security blanket, as Kat says, is exactly it. Although that's another bad sign for Hak if this is a coming of age story -but I still think that Yona will find a way to avoid that fate.

      I hadn’t really thought about it like that just because when you’re seeing a man beat somebody to death with his bare hands in a blind rage, I think that as a human being you don’t want to see your friend do something so brutal. However, eye for an eye and not interfering with such battles also makes a lot of sense for the reasons you mentioned. Food for thought.

      Apologies if I've missed anything. It's late and my wifis acting strange. :p

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    32. Oh right. Turns out I did miss something. I think Yona overlooking Suwon and Hak's relationship in order to make it about her is in some respects even worse than her just not thinking through the implications of it. Plus I don't really buy that she didn't know on some level. She appears to have known enough about their relationship to get mad at Hak for the attention Suwon was giving him instead of her. Also her father's comment about how the two of them could relate better because of their age.

      While she may not have been part of the conversations where their deeper bond was obvious, it seems like her obliviousness goes beyond what she hinted at where she never realized how popular Hak was with the ladies. Not noticing that the supposed love of her life interacts and bonds with people who aren't her is such a new level of self-absorption that it literally takes your breath away. Sofia's right that it's just shockingly smallminded for her to assume that everything revolves around her.

      Despite what it sounds like though, I do want to see Yona get better and succeed so there's that. :D

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    33. Ya AnY is by no means on SB league .SB is superior to AnY in all aspects ,plot ,growth ,bond, character,drama ,comedy everything is excellent .TCP ,I didn’t like it that much but it was good and the heroine was a fighter (tsukasa i think that’s her name) and when she went badass mode she was actually badass not like yona where her badassness is forced .

      Yup ,I can’t argue with the fact that AnY is a manga with amazing material but the way it was used was everything but amazing .I mean let’s take the fantasy element as an example ,except for the zeno or shinah scenes does this feel like a fantasy manga to you ? Because to me it doesn’t ,the author could’ve used to make the tribes more interesting ,the characters more exciting that’s one of the thing where she failed to use the material to it’s full potential .

      Oh what you said is excellent and I agree fully with you .First of all , I also pointed out to kat in the past the fact that the people in kouka are worthless ,I mean they let themselves die and starve and live in filth because the king doesn’t give a damn because he didn’t go to war for lands what the hell ????? I mean take a look at yun he is no different from the other poor people yet look at how he was managing his life ,he grew vegetables he was always clean he learned from the priest to read and stuff like that so what’s so different between him and the others ? The king and the generals don’t care then care for yourself help yourself don’t rely on others .You can’t tell me that yona a princess who has never been outside learned how to hunt and do some stuff and the people who have always been in mysery can’t what kind of logic is that ? It’s like there is no such thing as individual responsiblity ,why push the fault on the king do something for yourself .But it’s like yona accepted her dad is to blame for everything and that’s it .Never thinking that the generals ,the people are as guilty as he is ,because it’s supposed to be their country no ?

      Yeah the point is that except for SW yona doesn’t think deeply of anything because if she did she would see that not everything is her dad’s fault and that the country problems as stated above are deeply rooted since even the people do not have the will to live on or improve waiting for others to

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    34. save them . Yeah the generals suck ,look at earth who only wants to go to war and didn’t give a damn when women were kidnapped and sold like animals .Now of course no one points these things out since everything is the king’s fault .

      I agree about what you said ,yona despite her trying to act like a pirate still view herself as a princess and want others to remember it mainly hak (that nasty scene where she didn’t allow him to call her by her name)
      Hahaha Batman-like handling that does describe in a nutshell what she is doing ^^ Whatever she is doing it is to make herself feel better and that’s so bad ,but you know what’s also bad is that readers and characters view her as a warrior princess brave and fearless which is not .

      Yup as I’ve told kat once if she first started her journey as wanting revenge and justice but changed her mind later on after seeing the suffering of the people it would be nice but sadly revenge ,anger hatred were never part of yona’s joureny all love and that’s lame .

      Yeah ,the way she called him a coward because he refused to let her marry was really nasty .I mean come on the dude gave you everything when the people didn’t even have what to eat yet she is so spoiled that she start throwing hurtful words to her dad because he said no once . You know more than an enemy that they can’t defend he knows that war brings nothing good we have seen how the poor get trampled in wars and that’s unfair to say the least .But maybe he knew something we do not know yet.
      Yup that would’ve been better but none of the guys have a will on their own ,yona does own these men no matter what Jeha may say about following her on his own to me it’s all empty words .If you think about it ,yona didn’t struggle that much in anything she has done until now ,her allies followed her right away fought for her ,taught her what did she do on her own ?

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    35. True, sofia, she thinks that way. And, so far, he is indeed always there. Ya..something like more in depth knowledge of him rather than superficial ones that you've mentioned.

      Ah..not sure on that analogy since she cared about Suwon even if she doesn't care about her father. If Suwon is first, would Haku or her father be second? I would think the father is placed third. ^^;

      But then, she might think that he is doing that as her 'bodyguard' - really loyal and devoted one that she didn't realize that there is romantic feelings attach to it. Even if that hand lick really says a lot already but I really don't know. So, it is most probably back to taking him for granted..he'll be always there for her. Nevertheless, whether she will come to understand/know him more or not and other things we would want to happen, I believe that they will somehow still be a couple..that is basing on those pictures of them together. =P

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    36. Lol not dwell on her faults ? I happen to see only her flaws because her qualities are so few but yeah I get what you mean .And I also thought about nami in the past and usopp as well both are weak yet they play a big part in the crew and happen to be quite useful .Yona on the other only think of getting stronger and everything else it’s like it flew by her head .Doesn’t she understand that power doesn’t only amount to fighting skills ??? That she needs the muscles and the mind+heart that goes along with it .
      Oh so you aren’t up to date with SB ,well I caught just a few months ago and the story keeps getting better and better ^^

      Well the siblings thing is just something I had in the back of my mind but it would be so funny if it was the case ,yona loving her bro LOL i don’t know why but i think it’s hilarious if she discover that her so called great love is her bro. But I agree that he probably felt that SW was dangerous and hak was actually the best guy out of the two .
      Ya ,I also think that maybe he killed the mother so he too revenge on him .Or maybe he wasn’t picked as king because the grandfather felt like his son was too dangerous ,I mean from what we have seen the guy looks sort of evil .

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    37. Yup, Holly though I don't think that Yona would have realize the depth of Suwon and Haku's relationship. She probably thinks that it is just some ordinary buddy-buddy 'guys' thing. I would think that is logical or 'in character' in a way =P

      True..I also hope that though for now, I have adjusted my expectations to low in order not to be too disappointed. =P

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    38. I agree to me because she didn’t have any growth when it comes down to feelings and thoughts I’m not hyped for her getting a power up .What the hell will you do with strength when you lack in all the other aspects ?

      Yup ,it is a shame what they are doing to hak character when he is supposed to be the male lead .The dude feel like a secondary character ,SW has more focus than hak does ,is this normal i don’t think so

      We have talked about this with kat in the past ,the answer is simple they didn’t like the king were somehow glad he died and those who knew about what happened were SW allies and didn’t care either so no one bothered to put two and two together and like I said in the past how cant hey trust a guy who is so fishy and could get rid of them the moment they hinder him ,the answer is simple he gave them what they wanted earth got war and money ,fire got forgivness when in reality he is the one who screwed over his dad after using him ,sky was his from the start .That’s how things roll in kouka ,do I think it’s messed up yup but it’s effective .

      Ya only munduk has actually brains and is sharp ,I thought he was really cool in that meeting after the murder .

      You are right about the « is in no position to dictate anything » it was true before and is even more true now .She has to realize that even if she is a princess he is superior to her in all aspects ,and for all what she did ,about how he is the one who kept her alive she should be grateful to him till she dies but guess that didn’t reach yona’s brain .

      It seems like whatever reality yona is seeing , in it SW is still great ….facepalm
      True ,instead of helping her grow maybe stating the obvious they fanboy and that’s it .I agree that the jealousy over a girl is cliché and lame but after all what happened she doesn’t seem to get so what option do we have left for him to die and her to realize ?
      Well take shanks for an example he is very laid back dude but when times calls for it he was shown to have great wisedom and be a true badass .Zeno on the other hand what’s the point of being so old since he behave like a teen and bring no depth to the quest .He would’ve been perfect as the voice of reason but he is not .

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    39. Yup ,yona does create some drama on her own that’s obvious .The guy is blunt and honest tell him he will answer no need for drama .

      Their relationship is too one sided not in terms on feelings but in term of dedication . I mean even after she saw hak breakdown she still tells him stuff like you understand suwon as if she envied him for that . In a sense yona only see what she wants to see .

      Yup ,and the fact that she can feel the sadness and bloodlust of strangers ,yet can’t seem to see what’s under her nose speaks volume about her character .
      About the manga ,I do like it i think it’s okay but I’m not expecting much .

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    40. @ KAT Yup , and we have seen in the past that one hak tried to get closer by calling her by her name she refused so can’t really blame him for how things are since it’s her behavior that pushes him away but the depth knowledge thing is something she always tries to do with SW not hak .
      LOL ,I would think he goes last if SW is first hak is second the dragons and yun follow maybe after that lili and the pirates then fire dude then last comes daddy ,that’s so sad .

      Yup even if she doesn’t change ,they will still end up together and that’s sad .

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    41. That's true.

      Ya...I feel sorry for him. Not sure if I should blame him that she is like that or blame her for being like that. ^^;; Honestly, I wonder what she has been doing in the palace all those years since they don't seem to teach her anything. Is it because she is just going to marry someone who'll be the ruler so it's not needed?

      Yup. Still hoping it won't stoop down to VK's level.

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    42. @sofia Agreed. I love SB. Fair enough haha. I like Wakasa and while IMO Kyouko>Tsukasa I still like them both. Also you’re right about Tsukasa and her badassery differentiating her from Yona. I think again, that’s a problem with Yona’s characterization.

      I could actually deal with a fictional historical drama with mild fantasy elements. It seems to lean that way anyway since magic, contact with the gods, and superpowers seem rare in AnY’s worldbuilding. My main issue with it is that it feels like it was introduced as another means of making Yona special rather than as a part of the story in its own right. Because I mean, if the dragon gods are the only ones of their kind while everyone else has to make do with swords and spears in a low-tech world…no battle is really ever in doubt. Especially if BD uses his power.

      You’re right that it would’ve made the tribes more interesting if we had more fantasy but I’m also inclined to think that we could’ve had an awesome story in the same setting if Yona were a non-magical girl who had to convince the dragon gods to help her regain the throne after failing to retake her kingdom through foreign support. The dragon gods appear to be indifferent to humanity IMO. They only intervened to protect one of their own, they were prepared to wipe out the human race when one of their own was betrayed, and the dragonblood is almost parasitic in that it doesn’t care about the wellbeing of its host. The struggle of making a deal with 4 ancient beings who don’t care about her and whose powers aren’t subordinate to her…might’ve given us a compelling tale. Hm…now I’m thinking I should write that story when I have the time lol.

      That’s the tragedy of it. You’re right that the manga doesn’t reach its potential which is why we’re all fuming about how the story elements have been used.

      Yeah that was really strange. You’re right that Kouka’s citizens seem to be unwilling to adjust their way of life. I mean, with the Fire Tribe I understand that people would be upset at the labor force being used to build armies but it’s shocking that the young women didn’t learn how to hunt or use martial arts to defend themselves and their villages. I agree. You’re right about the individual responsibility being lacking. It takes a lot of people to keep a country running and similarly, it takes a lot of people to destroy it. It also bugs me how the villagers are so happy Il is gone but don’t seem to realize that their living standard hasn’t improved with the regime change.

      That’s true and you’re right. The thing is, like we were saying before, Yona didn’t have a high opinion of her father to begin with so I think she’s taking the path of least resistance in accepting the blame placed on her father. As you point out with the comparison to Yun, these people haven’t grown vegetables or learned skills (sewing, tea-making, growing chickens?) that could bring income through trade with the neighboring villages or Kai. I’m not trying to be an elitist, but what could these villagers possibly know about running a country? IMO, admitting her father was a flawed ruler and that Kouka’s decline is multi-faceted and complex would require Yona to admit that Suwon’s murder might not have been justified even with the premise of saving the country. And she’s simply not willing to give up Suwon, or rather her fantasy of Suwon. I think anyway.

      You’re right. I guess I just get frustrated at her thinking so deeply about Suwon but still being in the shallow end of the pool on that subject when we’re 100+ chapters into the story.

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    43. @sofia2 That’s true. Well it’s hard to know where to go when you have people who have to be spoonfed on the one hand and lazy generals on the other. See I feel like the generals have reasons for pinning it all on the king. The Fire Tribe general stole resources right out from under the villagers. Giving the people an abstract but vaguely concrete target for their anger allows them to not overlook the fact that you’re the problem.

      Yeah. That scene with Hak was very distasteful. I try. :p Yes I think that you’ve hit the nail on the head (again). It’d be tolerable if the story was clearly telling us that she needs to grow out of this, but instead we’re often seeing her get rewarded for failing. Like after the cliff scene in Awa. While facing her fears was admirable, she couldn’t do it. Logically, she shouldn’t have been there let alone sent on an undercover mission because brave people with no skills are a liability when you’re trying to assassinate someone. And for Yona to be getting credit for what the writing did for her (I can’t get over the glare and Kumji) and for the fans to be reading her as a brave warrior type when she’s getting by on moral victories…is really aggravating you’re right.

      You’re right that it would’ve been better if Yona had changed her mind about pursuing revenge. Or in the case of justice, if she’d redirected her pursuit of it towards seeking justice for the people. To be honest, I think it’d be nice if we’d seen more love during Yona’s journey. Love for her friends, love for her people, love for life, etc. Not just love in the sense of using others to feel better, but about sacrificing and learning to cherish the people around her after the way she lost her father. Slowly learning to adopt her father’s respect for life in a more practical package would’ve been a nice touch. That quality, the ability to love the people in your life fearlessly, is one of the reasons why I like Luffy.

      It was extremely distasteful for her to call her father a coward yes. While it was good that she had the decency to regret that a little bit, IMO she said what she felt even though it obviously wasn’t objectively true. That’s true too. Well I do tend to think that the stability Il’s policy promoted gave the villages room to prosper and probably contributed to the fact that there were more people alive to be disgruntled over the lack of war. I guess you can lead a horse to water…

      You’re right about these guys not having a will of their own. IMO it’s very unfortunate because these character dynamics are gold but they’re being criminally underutilized by the mangaka.

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    44. @sofia3 I don’t blame you. Oh so I guess you really are me. :p Yeah. I strong dislike it when leaders ignore the needs of their subordinates because they’re too busy pursuing their own ends. I suppose that if she was unable to notice that her father was actually a strong person (because cowards always stand by their philosophies even when the whole country disagrees with them amirite?), chances are that maybe she doesn’t recognize strength outside of fighting skills. That would also explain her failure to evaluate Hak correctly.

      SB is probably my favorite manga right now. It just turns out that law school is not a joke. I’m hoping to marathon it sometime this weekend now that my eyes have stopped twitching at the thought of heavy reading. I’m glad the story’s getting better. I promise I’ll be in the SB threads soon.

      Fair enough and I admit that it would be rather funny lol. I actually wondered in the other thread whether Il thought at some point that Suwon might’ve been involved with the queen’s death though I doubt it now. I agree. Yu-Hon does feel rather sinister in a way that Wind, who is also very strong, doesn’t. Plus Hak and Yona were afraid of him. I was also saying in the other thread that Yu-Hon’s decision to drive out the priests strongly suggests that his sinister atmosphere may not have been entirely for show. You’re right about Il possibly being a pacifist because he knew that it was largely the poor who suffered in these conflicts. It’d be interesting to me if Il killed Yu-Hon because he knew that Yu-Hon’s warmongering was a danger to the country. I think Il knew how to fight.

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    45. @sofia4 Exactly!

      The mangaka stripped Hak of his agency but it speaks to how excellent he is as a character that despite being hamstrung, he’s still IMO quite amazing. We see a wide range of relationships and expressed emotions with him and, even though I’m not sure if this mangaka is consciously doing it, despite his otherworldly skills Hak reads like a real human being because of it. If he had plans besides Yona, like Ren does, I wouldn’t be able to find a flaw in his characterization. Suwon’s also well-developed like that to an extent. I think the author likes Suwon as a character which may explain why he gets so much focus. :/

      See I’m 100% fine with the generals being glad Il’s gone and I’m 100% fine with the generals taking advantage of his absence/settling in with the new leadership. There are a lot of good reasons for them to have played along and publicly accepted the story, IMO, even while knowing that Suwon was a treacherous guy. What I don’t really like is being told that they’re politically experienced and then seeing them miss really obvious red flags that they should’ve seen. Similar to how I don’t really like Yona succeeding later on because Suwon was too sentimental to try and kill her at the start. No doubt it’s effective though. No complaints about ruthless politicking here. I just would've liked to see a sign that the generals aren't so easily fooled.

      Munduk is good people. :p

      I’m just not sure why Yona does that tbh. You’d expect a survival instinct to kick in somewhere so that she’d at least be willing to recognize that it's better for her if he’s happy. Heck, Suwon is succeeding because he understands that it’s easier to get what you want from someone if you’ve built some positive emotional capital. Well, to be fair, ungratefulness is a trait of hers. I wish Yun had followed up on that more but…*sigh*

      LOL true. It’s also very troubling that her need to feel better and her love for Suwon appear to be the only things she’s been willing to fight for so far. It’s to the point where I don’t know if I’ll even buy into her altruism during the climatic battle.

      Honestly, I don’t know how to make her appreciate him while he’s alive. Even her paying attention to him now appears to be driven at least in part by her still interacting with him in relation to her own needs. Now that she's physically attracted to him she's getting better about thinking about him in the sense that she won't interfere if he were to find someone else (lol), but then she's still treating him like an object by making decisions for him that he should be making for himself. And, of course, she talks to him primarily about herself.

      You’re right about Shanks versus Zeno. I get the sense that character development (which I care about if you haven’t guessed) is not this mangaka’s strength. It seems like Zeno might be an attempt at being original with the whole contrast between his true age and his behavior, but I think his immortality is increasingly looking like another “fact” that doesn’t affect the story’s progression the way it should.

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    46. @sofia5 You’re right.

      True. Like Kat I can kind of see, sadly, where she was coming from if she was under the impression that Hak’s breakdown over Suwon was about her. You’re right that she sees what she wants to see. She doesn’t have to be some sort of Suwon-esque master of manipulation to see that Hak is struggling with what happened. The one-sidedness just isn't a very inspiring dynamic but I think we'll see Yona fall for Hak. My biggest reservation is that I'm not convinced that we'll see her let go of this egoistic way of thinking.

      You’re so right about her understanding strangers better than those close to her although I’m not actually convinced about that being a sign of her perceptiveness. Well, Kat and I were saying in the other thread that the obliviousness and naivety is for cuteness. We’re supposed to like her because the naivety makes her vulnerable…or so the theory goes. I was saying that naivety is fine if the narrative is aware of the fact that these behaviors are flaws. But when we’re being sold a badass warrior princess, naivety is not cute.

      Fair enough. I find that when stuff like that happens to me I start to want to just rewrite the whole thing lol.

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    47. Well it’s not i disliked TCP but I just didn’t get into it .Yup Tsukasa was actually badass ,when she did the glare/badass thing it was indeed badass and not made up or exaggerated .

      Well ,I also have no problem with mild fantasy but the tribes except for the wind tribe and that village in kai where yona did that damn dance ,are really boring according to me .They come ,they kick ass yona take credits she gains fanboys and fangirls and they leave .They do the job yet she is the one to shine anyway so if for example there was more fantasy we would be excited to discover the tribes and it would much more pleasant yet instead we got the boring kouka kingdom .But you did make a good point even the fantasy element is just to make yona look good ,because think about it she was a god in her previous life who has control/ « bonds » with dragons whose only purpose in life is to serve her and that until they die that ‘s only about yona .Does this fantasy element having any effect on kouka like magical creatures ,gods ,contracts stuff like the ones you stated nope it doesn’t and you know if the author was gonna give all the focus to yona why the hell did she make such a big cast .It should’ve been hak ,yun and yona and that’s it ,since she isn’t using her other characters so what’s the point if they are only there to fanboy and for comedy ???

      Haha that’s a good plot ,but you know I think we could get over yona being the way she is and all of that but I think what screwed over this story is that there is no villain .Now let me explain with OP as an example .In OP just like yona they arrive at a place which has a lot of issues kick the villain ass make allies and leave up until now it’s the same but everything else is different .In OP during each arc everybody get his time to shine and you can see that those guys are growing and their bond is getting stronger take zoro as an example at the start he told luffy get in the way of my dream and I will kill you then a hundred chapters later what does he say « if i can’t make my captain’s dream whatever dream I ‘ve is all talks » so that’s one thing another thing is that each island shows us something new like the dwarfs ,the fishmen ,the giants …etc .In each arc somehow they get a piece of intel that gets them closer to the blank century and that’s a key factor to the big battle that will occur at the end each time luffy make allies it’s not just him but it’s the whole crew and that’s nice .And all the battles and struggles are nice because we know that they are getting closer to their real enemy which is the world gov ,what I mean by getting closer is that they are getting stronger and at the same defeating all those related to them such us doffy crocodille…etc because to me the emperors aren’t the final bosses it’s the world gov ,those nasty nobles and last but not least the five elders those are the real enemy .Even isn’t aware of it everything he does will lead him and his crew to clash with them at the end .
      In AnY not only are the « villains » introduced jokes ,i mean they are so lame but we don’t have a final boss which should’ve been SW .If we had a proper plot and a villain to defeat then I would accept all the yona business but since we have none I’m sorry all the yona hype is a big no to me .

      That’s true and honestly so far I never felt sorry for any of the people we have seen so far .It’s like in what way yun ? I mean you all live in the same mess but look at how different they are .It shows that these case simply do not have the will to improve themselves but leave to yona just call the kouka robinhood line and she will come and wash you and feed you and change your clothes

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    48. for you no need to learn how to care for yourself .And like you said it’s makes one want to facepalm about how happy they are the king is dead when nothing has changed .And we have talked about it with kat about how SW only help the generals he needs like helping earth to be rich and so far it’s seems like his goal is to take back the lands his dad has lost (it was said that the kai land thing belonged to his dad) and somehow do things his dad couldn’t do like steal the throne oh well at least we have a kid who love his dad But of course in yona’s mind he invaded kai for the water tribe ‘s sake but hak knows better and yeah everything SW does isn’t random like her but is carefuly planned .

      I agree ,those villagers whom I guess don’t even know how to read or write (most of them seeing how they live) can’t understand what is like to rule .The way I see it yona’s dad was seeing the moral aspect of things like war will only make orphans and bring sadness and chaos so avoid it .And even if they had little land it is no excuse for the country to fall into such poverty .But yeah let’s pin everything on Il and be done why think about what being a true king mean about how awful war is nope SW is a great and let’s keep it at that forget about all the poor villages he will be crushing as long as he gets daddy’s lands and give some money to the country who cares ?

      Yup ,it was already annoying at chapter 40 now it’s getting beyond annoying .


      Ya ,and except for fire tribe who was pretty corrupt the other general pinned everything on yona’s dad and never questioned the way they ruled over their tribe .Take earth as an example he was sitting his ass in his castle doing nothing day after day except day dreaming about the days of wars while women were being stolen people were starving and of course all that my talking all kind of crap abou yona’s dad .SW come in ,trick him and make sure he would become his pawn cause that’s what he is and all of sudden he is wow the best king ever and he become his fanboy (i guess it’s something he shares with yona but well he is more deserving of praise than she is) anyway the guy wanted action there was plenty on his lands yet look at what he was doing ? Again how I wish this manga had a voice of reason someone who point at all the crap that’s going on ,I mean in this series people tend to call crap cold ,when you should call crap crap (I’m sorry if i’m being rude ,I just want to make a point  )

      Getting rewarded for failing I think this sentence gives a perfect picture of the yona unjustifed fanboyism and fangirlism that she gets from the characters .Yes her trying to get the plant on the cliff was brave but it wasn’t enough to make one go wow you are awsome alright go for an undercover mission where quite a few lives are on the lines are you kidding me ? That’s yet again one of the scene where I can just facepalm and how did all this happen ? it’s thanks to her glare ,I mean kat and I were joking about it about how she has king’s haki .Since everybody think that a little girl who has never seen the world and still doesn’t understand how it works is some sort of charismatic warrior princess it can only be haki ^^

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    49. Well ,I agree but it doesn’t have to be love .What she should’ve learned is to listen to others ,to look into their hearts and cherish them .Because yun +hak+the dragons who would die for her without thinking who are always there do not equal the importance of SW in her heart I think that there is no need to go further because that one thing speak volume about her character .

      Yup ,it was awful how she talked to her father and it’s worse that she never seem to think of him or what he was trying to do yet she does about SW .But if we were to make a list of all the distasteful things she did it would be way longer than the good things ^^

      Yup ,it’s a shame instead of deep bonds mature relationships we only get comedy and that’s nice but it’s not enough and as far as I know it’s isn’t comedy like NG life and even in NG life there was more depth than AnY ever had .

      Lol ,I thought the same that there was someone who think like me and like i said it’s refershing compared to the usual fangirls .

      Exactly ,and I believe if the king had more support from his generals they could’ve built a better world that wouldn’t need war in order to grow and improve .But his own daughter hasn’t shown any respect toward him ,how do you expect others to do it? Yup and that shows how narrow minded she is .

      I know what you feel it’s hard to find time for hobbies nowdays ,okay see you there ^^

      LOL ,nah he was too young and I don’t know what happened but I feel like yuhon isn’t the hero everyone think he is and Il isn’t the coward everyone think he is ,something about that man feels quite dark .Him chasing the priests is maybe because they had a prophecy about him or his son something like if they take the throne kouka is screwed then the grandfather believed them and put Il on the throne .Ya and he was right nothing come out of war it’s just large scale murder ,all the soldiers that dies having families and you are only throwing other people in chaos just for glory and land .

      I’ve to disagree about the « we see a wide range of emotions from hak » because we don’t the dude is so used to keep all his emotions locked up in his heart that it became something natural .The only time his emotions were truly shown ,his real emotions ,the moment where the depth of his suffering

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    50. was shown was in chapter 91 Aka hak beating the living crap out of everybody .Most of them he is blunt and likes to tease others but he is also honest ,badass and kind and funny of course .Also i think this is due to how their group dynamic works ,how everything revolve around yona and that’s it .You never see heart to heart talk about hak’s breakdown ,about yona’s journey ,about zeno’s reveal nothing at all no one talks so what can hak do except keep it in his heart and again everytime they have a moment SW is brought up and how the hell do you want hak to open up to her ? or to anyone else ?

      Yup ,one of the reason why I love SB so much is that ren and kyouko both have their own dream and their own goal and they help the other grow as an individual and as an actor they may walk on different paths yet both of their paths do meet and it’s amazing to read .How each look out for the other is so nice which is more I can say about the hak yona relationship which is so very one sided and yeah it’s so lame that a guy of his caliber has no dream or will of his own .
      Well ,yeah SW is a better character than those two and I’ve a feeling that the author does like him ,I mean the dude despite all what he did he has never lost or failed or struggled everything has been going smoothly for him and I feel like it will continue unless this is all to show that he will get his punishment at the end by dying or being exiled .
      Even if I think he is better character than yona and hak .I still don’t like him because it feel like the author wanted a lelouch 2.0 and she failed . I mean both made sacrifices for the sake of the country even if it meant losing the loved one . I get that he is supposed to be that type but I ‘m sorry he doesn’t have a tiny bit of lelouch charisma or intelligence .I mean I never thought SW was amazing or outstanding .

      Yup ,we talked about this in the past about hak ,how all these old dudes who know how politics work seems to be dancing to SW tune without putting two and two together but that’s the story they are all dumb except for SW .

      She is indeed ungrateful ,I mean she couldn’t even allow the guy who did so much for her to call her by her name ? she should be very dedicated to him because in a sense he threw everything away for her which the other of the group didn’t do .
      Ya ,so to make it short their relationship is unhealthy since it seems like everything is being taken from a person while the other person give nothing in return and when she does it’s poison to the heart (The hairpin ,the dance ,SW…..)

      Ya ,I also i’m a fan of character growth but i don’t mind if there is none when the characters are nice which isn’t the case here .

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    51. Was shown to be quite intense

      Whatever reason he was added to the story he is useless .Ya and even if she does fall for him as long as she keep drealing about her pupy dog love for that’s not very pleasing .
      Yup ,you can’t have a « badass and fierce princess » be naive to the point of where you could call her dumb that’s not how things are supposed to be .If there wasn’t so much fanboyism in the manga over her and they would see her as who she really is a little girl who is trying to grow but isn’t doing a great job then i would complain so much less .

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    52. @ KAT

      Well , I think that it’s his fault that she was like that and it’s her fault that after all what happened she is still like that .What she was doing all these years was probably dream of SW and the day they would marry and how red her hair is and what jewels to get from daddy .Yup it’s seems like her knowledge of politics and history is zero .

      Ya that’s probably the case ,and I had this idea in my mind that the priests told him your daughter she would cause a great uproar in the kingdom so he never allowed her to do anything or to go out or maybe he was just worried about her safety .

      Ya strangely enough it isn’t as horrible as VK but it is getting there .

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    53. Yup, seems like it.

      He was worried about her safety after his wife got killed by rebels..though, it must be some extreme overprotection. It makes me think that there is some sort of gender issue here. Yona doesn't need it since she'll be married off and her duty is just to 'have a heir'? Or, the mangaka just want to portray her as really naive? Ah, for the comedy?

      Hehe..hopefully, it doesn't get there.



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    54. Yes ,just look at Lili and how her dad treats her ,so yeah there is indeed a gender bender issue and yeah he was overprotective that's why i told you maybe the priests told him something and he believed it .

      No idea if it's for comedy it isn't working because you can't have a "perspective " person able to give off the aura of a "beast" (yup yona 's glare was compared to that of a beast ya it's not me who said it ) be naive and dense it just doesn't work

      I hope so.

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    55. Ah yes, sofia, but holly mentioned that the priests were ousted during the time of Yuhon. So we kind of speculated that the priests have some prophecy or doing something that Yuhon didn't like when he thought that he is going to be king. And, maybe the father didn't like that so chose Iru to become king instead. =P

      If the priests were there and they are on his side, shouldn't they warn him about Suwon instead? Unless, they did and he doesn't believe them. ^^; I get the impression that the priests are no longer believed as they used to be during Zeno's time. Everyone thinks that Hiryuu thing is some sort of fairy tale/legend.

      Hm..thinking of her red hair which she hates..that means her mother doesn't have red hair, either, right? Or else, she would be proud of having the same color hair with her mother.

      Hehe..split personality?

      Hm..but at what point does it become like VK? Somehow, I think VK is not that bad if you think that it is Kaname's story rather than Yuuki or anyone else's. =P

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    56. Fair enough. Different strokes and all that. I think the difference is that Tsukasa had the skills to back up her glares and she started off quite likeable from the start. IMO your main character can be selfish to start and get away with it, but the way to play those flaws is with humor. Which I think is what the mangaka tried to do initially, but then didn’t follow through on.

      That’s true. It’s strange because on paper the Water arc, for instance, should’ve been amazing. We have a mysterious drug crippling a city, a criminal syndicate running the city under the general’s nose, fighting females, etc. I think maybe it’s because of the same problem we talked about where it feels like the residents are waiting to be saved. We should’ve seen a civilian resistance movement with intelligent leaders, people snatching every crumb they can find because they’re getting out as soon as possible, a kid trying to convince his dad to leave the family business so they can escape, etc. Like you said earlier about the people lacking the ability to make do in bad circumstances, it’s difficult to care about people who don’t care about their own wellbeing.

      That’s true. I think that part of the reason why it feels like the dragons should be cut is because the overarching plot hasn’t gotten there. I have to admit that a slimmed down cast feels very attractive regardless. If Suwon had been serious about eliminating Yona, an agile, fast-moving group that doesn’t call attention to itself could’ve even been incorporated into the story. But sadly, that ship has sailed and without a proper villain do we really want to see Yona hem and haw over Suwon even more? :p

      I completely agree that Yona would be tolerable if there was a main villain or epic plot. I think the mangaka has played it both ways though. There’s room for a shadowy outside force beating Kouka back into its own borders and trying to take over, but there’s also room to stake Suwon as the main opponent because of his speech at the coronation about not letting the gods prevent him from his goal. But I agree with what you’re saying with the OP comparison there. Plus even if we do get a proper villain in AnY, there isn’t going to be the same methodical set-up that we see in OP IMO. And because Yona doesn’t have a goal, that takes its toll on the relationships in AnY. You’re right about that.

      Lol true. But then again the Robin Hood thing might prove useful later on just because Yona seems to have limited empathy. If she learns that Kai has taken over Awa as payback or something, that’ll give her the motivation she needs to get the ball rolling on the main plot.

      I agree. At this point she should know better, but she’s still trying to justify Suwon. She’s naïve to a fault and all, but she’s demonstrated that she can do better when she tries. For her to not get what you’re saying here about Suwon’s calculating tendencies, it makes me seriously doubt her. Putting her in a position of power when she struggles to put two and two together with the pieces right in front of her is more than a bad idea IMO: it’s dangerous.

      That’s a good point about how Il may have approached war from a moral standpoint. I think that a lot of Kouka’s battles have taken place on foreign soil. Yu-Hon being praised for his conquered lands and the like I mean. It could be the case that the villagers and generals are eager for the wars of the olden days because it wasn’t their villages being pillaged or their children being orphaned. They were always able to come home. Yep. You’ve summed up their problem perfectly as usual.

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    57. I hope she snaps out of it soon. Too much has happened for her to still be processing matters like that.

      Exactly. What amazes me is the loyalty that Earth gets from his tribe. He was lazy, he was mismanaging the tribe’s natural resources, as you mention the starving and trafficking, etc. He might’ve even had an excuse to fight Kai over the trafficking thing. Haha Suwon getting fanboys like Yona is so true. This is actually an area where I would’ve expected someone like Zeno to play the voice of reason role because he’s lived under every king Kouka ever had and most likely every king has had strengths and weaknesses.


      Yep. The unjustified fanboys and fangirls are very hard to watch. Lol. I wish I’d thought of that king’s haki angle first. The glare freezing people made some sense the first time because the Fire Tribe’s second son was used to Yona having a bratty but less dead serious demeanor. After that not so much. Yeah, you’d think that the pirates would’ve taken the assassination of Kumji more seriously when they knew his death would end the battle. In that situation, you sacrifice the convenience of your “main fighting force” and you send one or two of your strongest fighters to take him out because the sooner you succeed, the less soldiers you’ll lose in the skirmishes. Yona was saved by the mangaka which is even more proof that she shouldn’t have been the one they sent. Facepalm is right.

      Good point. I think part of the issue is what you said before about how Yona hasn’t had to sacrifice in order to get her allies and their devotion. In OP, you have arcs like the one with Arlong or with Luffy/Zoro fighting for Usopp’s village and then losing Usopp later on. Luffy has literally bled for his crew members whereas with Yona it’s largely been the other way around.

      You’re right about the way she spoke to her father. Tbh, I blame Ik-Soo for the fact that we’re still contending with a heroine who loves a man who chose the throne over her life. It was his whole thing about how sometimes you can’t forget love that led to Yona thinking that she didn’t have to reconsider her feelings for him and now we’re over halfway done and she still hasn’t let go of the guy. Ugh.

      It’s so strange. The pieces were certainly all there in terms of relationships and I don’t recall the mangaka being terrible before AnY. Maybe the story’s just too long and too epic which is why we’re seeing the manga lose its way in terms of plot and direction.

      True that. :p It’s odd how some folks don’t want to critique a story that has so much material. Historical and fantasy stories often have the most points of contention to discuss.

      I completely agree. I think most of generals had a grudge against Il because he wasn’t Yu-Hon. There really weren’t any objective reasons to dispute the decisions we did see Il make and while I think that Il’s lack of accessibility did make it easier for Suwon to launch his bid, the wind tribe’s relative prosperity shows that it was more than possible to succeed under Il. Though that might be a function of geography as well.

      I simply don’t understand how Yona got this way lol.

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    58. For sure. :p

      Suwon’s age is why I didn’t explore it much before, but then again at 9 Suwon had already built and used an intel network in the royal capital and he was also 9 when he began plotting Il’s murder and the coup. But I mean, Suwon is very pro-Il when they’re sick, a little bit less so when Yona was kidnapped, and then obviously he plotted the coup after that. I just thought that perhaps Il, when he called himself a coward, might’ve been saying it due to something that involved Suwon and a failure to kill Suwon would’ve fit the bill somewhat. But yeah, I’m back to thinking that Il might’ve been referring to himself as a coward in his fear of losing the people who mattered the most to him or also in his failure to take the rebels head-on after the queen was killed. Although he lacked the support from his generals to have done so IMO and a weapons ban might’ve been his best defense.

      That’s a real possibility and I think you’re right about Yu-Hon. I actually believe Ik-Soo about Yu-Hon chasing the priests because he wanted power. A prophecy would be a nice tie-in for that. You’re right about the war. But then again that appears to be the difference between the likes of Il and people like the ex-Fire Tribe general and Suwon. Il doesn’t appear to think of the villagers as pawns which is what makes their anger at the king even more perplexing.

      Hm. “Wide range of emotions” doesn’t quite cover what I was trying to say (serves me right ). I guess what I meant was that I find that Hak interacts with others in a way that feels genuinely human for lack of a better description. His interactions with his brother, for instance, are very different from his interactions with grandpa and even then from his 9 year old days to the present, we see increased maturity in the way they interact within that relationship (contrast that with Yona who doubted her father when he didn’t drop everything and come running at 6 and then turned on her father when he said no at 16 ). While I do find Hak’s emphasis on social status to be a little bit contrived, his personality is well-defined IMO. I’m not sure I’m describing what I mean very well.

      Oh really? He’s seemed like an intensely passionate sort from the beginning to me. I’ve thought that it was clear from the early chapters where we saw his loyalty to Suwon after the murder and also to Yona, his intensity with his fighting, his hurt when Yona was like “Suwon would never have said that!”, his reaction to that hairpin when Yona dropped it, his affection for his brother, etc. It’s just that, like you said, he often puts up defensive fronts like getting angry at Yona for that comment or being sarcastic. He’s often bottling things up and not always expressing himself in mature and healthy ways, IMO, but I’ve had no trouble seeing it with him. Suwon is more cerebral of the two to me. Though I get what you’re saying too.

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    59. Lol. IMO that’s because the cast is too big and with the dragons all gathered he’s redundant as a bodyguard plus his other skills, like first aid or military strategy, are often superseded by Yun for some reason unless there’s a political element to it. That’s very true also lol. I guess I’m getting ahead of myself to assume that she’ll eventually move past this puppy love style of approaching relationships. But assuming the direction things are going with Hak is going to stay true, I think their pairing is supposed to be more mature in the end than the crush she had on Suwon.

      That’s how I feel about it as well. She definitely deserves some credit for how far she’s come, but exaggerating her accomplishments because we’re apparently that determined to make her a warrior princess really hasn’t worked for this manga. Especially since it seems like the characters are aware of her shortcomings at points like Hak or Yun, but they nonetheless choose to gloss over everything and act like they’ve never seen a girl doing the types of things they see her doing although, frankly, given the same opportunities Yuri could probably pull most of it off in a more down-to-earth fashion. I know that we’re supposed to be getting a message about empowerment and coming of age in all this, but I can’t help but feel like that’s being undermined by the special treatment Yona’s getting in the story.

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    60. @ KAT Well ,I also said that when I was talking about Holly saying that the priests had a prophecy that neither him nor his son should be king otherwise chaos would follow so the grandfather picked yona’s dad instead and i added that maybe this is what pushed him to refuse SW as a marriage partner for yona because he was wary of him and maybe they even made a prophecy about her and maybe that’s the reason he locked her up in the castle .Alot of maybe (s) and maybe the author would just leave it at he chased them out ^^
      Maybe he knew and still didn’t take action because he didn’t have the guts to kill a kid ,just like Holly said maybe that’s why he called himself a coward .
      Yup ,it was stated that her mom had black hair .

      More than a split personality it is just bad writing .
      Well when i start coughing blood and my eyes start bleeding i will know that it has fallen as low as VK right now it just make me want to puke and facepalm .I agree actually if this was only kaname story and yuuki + zero +other annoying characters weren’t in the story .It would’ve been quite a different story .The main and only thing i guess that i hated about yuuki was his unhealthy obsession with yuuki now if she was worth being obsessed over i would understand but she war far from it .

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    61. Ya ,Even If I didn’t get into the manga ,I’ve to agree that Tsukasa was very badass ,acted like a badass when times called for it and so it made sense for others to view her as badass and thus she was very likeable which isn’t the case with yona . The theme of moving on is supposed to be portrayed in this manga but it is really poorly written .Look at kyouko at first she was a dumb fangirl but she quickly found the resolve to move on ,and at first even if she tried cool we saw her feel quite down when shou was involved which is normal since that’s the guy she loved all her life but slowly and surely on her journey for revenge she found a dream of her own ,she found the strength to move on because at this point her hatred for show isn’t as intense as it was in the beginning (we don’t even see the kyouko demon squad that often) and that’s because there is ren who became a bigger existence in her heart and she is now happy even if there lots of issues^^ I also love how she fear /doesn’t want to repeat the same mistakes ,how she gives everything to her dream .
      Yona on the other hand except wanting to fight can you tell me how she grew or moved on from how she was in chapter 1 ?

      That’s true ,the only people so far who wanted to make an effort to change things are the awa pirates .I mean if i was a princess in that country I wouldn’t help such people who blame others for everything and do not try to live on their own with their own little strength .Also yona isn’t making things any better by literally feeding the poor instead of trying to push them toward a direction where they can stand on their own feet .

      Ya ,I don’t see what they bring to the story except comedy ,none of them is helping the plot or helping yona grow .I mean those guys are happy to see her being stubborn when it isn’t a good thing at all at least in this case .Oh in the past kat told me she would’ve loved to see plotting and counter ploting in the manga and i thought of death note ,it would’ve been nice if the two were playing mind games seeing who would get screwed over first ,saying them play and trick each other but nope it didn’t happen .If SW was a proper villain then this story even with fantasy or yona being still yona would’ve been way better and yeah if he sent assassins after them things would’ve been exciting .

      Yup ,and What type of villain is being introduced after 100+ chapters ? this manga had room for a lot of good stuff to happen sadly all that space was wasted .
      Again just what kind of plot appear after 100+ chapters i mean if it was a shounen which usually has 200+ chapters i would somehow understand but this is a shoujo so i don’t see how and i don’t think i would like it .I mean i don’t feel like the author is actually planning stuff here .

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    62. Yup ,yona isn’t fit to rule that’s a fact one can’t argue about .You gotta be sharp and ruthless when in power and those two aspects is something she lacks the biggest proof is how she handle the whole SW mess .
      Yup and you would think that yona being a former god having empathy and all that kind of stuff would come to realize that gaining lands is by no mean worth all that sacrifices But nope it didn’t happen in the last arc when those people were getting trampled she said i won’t side with anyone and that was quite a disapointment .I was hoping that she would get too see that there is no honour in war and maybe later on she would find a compromise between her father no war policy and SW yes to war policy but nope it didn’t happen .If she could see beyond « i’m kouka princess « and try to treasure human life it would be nice .
      Yup ,it makes you wonder how come his tribe loves him yet everybody loves the king what’s the so different about earth general and the former king ? Ya that’s why i’m saying he is useless a guy who has seen every ruler of the country ,yet behave like a teen is not nice at all .
      Yup ^^
      True ,that’s another reason why I love luffy so much his devotion to his crew has no limit .He even made the world gov his enemy without a second thought to save robin ,he sent that nasty world noble flying for the sake of his friend despite the heavy consquences that were to follow he went to impel down went through fire and ice lost years of his life span to save ace .So after all that i understand why others are so devoted to him and all of these elements added a really touching aspect to the bonds between luffy and his crew .
      In yona like you said it’s others who bleed for yona and that’s it ,we have yet to see her take an arrow for one of the guys and i’m not even sure if SW were to harm one of them if she would dare to attack him .The problem is that yona started the journey without the resolve to move on from her past .So many issues that have pilled up and so the story ended with a lot of flaws .
      So very true when he told her that i was like « dude shut the hell up » i mean the proper answer/advise would be in life even if it’s hard to froget or to move on or part with some people but for your own good you gotta find the strength to move .The dude made his choice and he didn’t pick you so she should’ve made her choice long ago .
      Yup maybe the author couldn’t handle such a long story so it ended being a huge mess .
      Yup usually they prefer to fangirl rather than discuss .

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    63. Yup ,it’s like you said it’s take a lot of people to destroy a country but his own daughter failed to see that so i don’t expect others to see it and yup you are right about the wind tribe i mean without even talking about them let’s just take yun as an example and so yeah despite the chaos in the country if someone has enough will power he will probably be able to improve his or her life .

      I don’t think he started plotting against yona’s dad since he was 9 but i think he indeed started doubting his rule since he was very young . I agree that SW is quite impressive when compared to yona or the other characters but to me what we can get with this chapter is the guy since childhood had a talent for manipulation ,the way he got all the guys the way he wanted and he was also so shown to keep secrets even at that age (when he got money for the old man and hak asked how he did and he just avoided the question) what I’m trying to say is that he was never an innocent sweet child but rather as sly and manipulative child who acted sweet to decieve others .

      Yup ,no one except for hak and gramps were shown to at least try and understand the former king again can’t expect much when his own daughter doesn’t believe in him . Maybe this whole mess was because a prophecy was made that didn’t please both yuhon and his bro and both tried to avoided yuhon by chasing them out and Il by being a pacifist and locking his daughter in the castle .

      If that’s what you mean by « a wide range of emotions » then i agree and i ‘ve to add that it’s an ever bigger shame that the dude has no other purpose than being a fanboy despite having the qualities to become outstanding character .

      I agree about what you said but more than passion i believe the guy is very devoted to everything he does but he does indeed have alot of passion in him ,passion which he keeps locked up in his heart just so not to trouble yona because she is his « master » sigh….I think that part of the defense his built around his heart is reminding others yona and SW that he is a servant .Something like I’m a servant don’t bother about me just be happy and we have seen that the one time where he tried to overcome the servant thing she didn’t allow him to .The hairpin ,the dance and all those damn SW related moment to me show one thing that yona failed to realize ,hak has a heart and just like everybody he gets hurt everytime a SW related thing comes out from her mouth it’s like a stab to the heart .Long short she doesn’t realize that she is the source of alot of his suffering that’s all .

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    64. I know that but i can’t see a mature relationship between those two or any relationship at all considering how yona is whatever they do to me it’s seems like fanservice instead of romance .Also ,i have to make sure you understand something i’m not unhappy because hak loves yona and she doesn’t love me back ,let’s be clear here even if something is nice to you ,you are not obliged to love them .The reason why i’m so unhappy with their relationship is because hak gives her everything ,he gave up his life for her is devoted only to her to the point of dying for her if times call for it .But if he had stayed behind and didn’t help her escape .He would’ve become an even more succesful general under SW ,with all the women who are interested in him he would’ve married and have a family of his own yet all that he gave it up withtout thinking twice .While yona not once has she given thoughts to his feelings ,to what he had given up ,their relationship is far too one sided that’s the problem .
      Also , I don’t want yona to wait until the last chapter to realize oh wait i think i’m in love with ha know .But I’m really doubting she will get over her puppy love .
      Yup ,you should give credit where credit is due but when it isn’t and you do it to the extent it is done is AnY it make it painful to read .Well Yona is supposed to be amazing compared to the other girls in their world so yeah and it’s seems like the author think that yona is her only character that deserves focus and character growth (when in reality she doesn’t even have any)

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    65. Agreed. There are a lot of themes in this manga that I feel are getting the short end of the stick. Agreed with respect to Kyouko. Honestly, the demon squad was hilarious and unique because so many shoujo heroines refuse to embrace their baser instincts even when they’ve been wronged. I’d just add that an important difference between Kyouko and Yona bears on what you said about Kyouko being careful not to make the same mistakes –it’s that Yona doesn’t reflect. Her father is dead, she’s a fugitive (kind of), and the guy she’d crushed on for 10 straight years was responsible. Rather than appreciating her father’s advice on relationships and evaluating partners when you’re royalty and learning a lesson about the dangers of allowing your feelings to blind you to a person’s true nature when you’re in a position of power, we see her doing the wrong things and coming to the wrong conclusions. As long as the big lesson she’s learned from everything is that she should feel guilty for her time in the castle because it stopped her from realizing how much suffering was happening because of her father, she’s not going to become someone you trust on the throne.

      Well, I suppose that feeding and clothing the poor is probably more productive than fussing over her hair. But you’re right. :p

      I’m actually not entirely happy with the Awa pirates because once Yona came into the picture, their actions didn’t match what you’d expect from people who are motivated to take back their city. The standards the lady pirate had with deciding whether the guys could join were correct IMO. However, the lady pirate lowered her standards for Yona’s test, lowered her standards to let Yona into the group, and then lowered her standards again by sending Yona and Yun on the most important part of the mission. IMO that’s not consistent with a group who’s serious about ousting Kumji. Yeah, I have a bad feeling that the citizens of Kouka are being used as plot devices rather than legit characters. Agreed about Yona.

      I suppose they’ll be used in the final battle when Yona’s forces need more than Hak to help them. There’s definitely a disconnect there because Yona’s been stubborn since chapter 1 so I don’t see Yona being stubborn in chapter 100+ as progress or something to praise necessarily. Even as a kid, Yona doesn’t appear to have any problems saying what she wants or asserting herself. Something like that makes more sense if we’re looking at a princess with a shy personality like what happened in Ninohime No Monogatari.

      I completely agree about plotting and counter-plotting. I think that it could’ve been pulled off without Suwon as a proper villain because we can see that he’s still scheming to stay on the throne and fulfill his objectives. Readers would be torn because on the one hand Yona has the rightful claim, but Suwon has proven competent. Yona has “pluck” and determination, but Suwon’s ruthlessness and sharp political acumen are necessary to rule. That would’ve made for even more interesting discussion. I thought so too. I really don’t like how it looks like Yona will prevail in the end by taking advantage of a hole Suwon left open on purpose. She’s allowed to end up in a crazy situation once because of coincidence and that free strike was used up when she walked in on the murder IMO. But that’s me though.

      It’s hard to say. I think maybe the mangaka isn’t sure about the allotted length. True. Sad but true. Well, some shoujo is really long-running like Glass Mask, SB, etc so it could be that the mangaka’s banking on that. But I mean, even with 200+ chapters, I still feel like the narrative lacks cohesion. Lol. Kat and I were saying the same thing about the planning. I think she does have a storyline in place, but Kat has convinced me that the mangaka may be filling in the details as she goes. I don’t think you can get away with that in a historical epic so here we are grieving over lost potential.




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    66. I think that although the mangaka will put Yona back on the throne (being unqualified has never stopped Yona from doing important jobs), Hak and Yun will be doing way too much to make up for her deficits.

      Imagine. Hiryuu falling in love with humanity only for his incarnation to be so lacking in that department. :/ I agree that her response was a disappointment, but again, on a fundamental level I don’t think Yona realizes that commoners are real human beings with feelings and lives that they want to keep living. To her, the rulers are simply exercising their rights IMO and while it’s a shame that people are suffering, what can she do? Stuff like that is the reason why I say that Yona may think she’s being selfless, but the truth is that she doesn’t have the people’s best interests at heart IMO.

      It’s as if nobody except for Suwon, Hak, and Wind know anything about governing in this story. :p True. I think I cut Zeno more slack than you do, but that was an instance where his failure to offer some big picture perspective really bothered me.

      True. I agree. Luffy’s willingness to throw everything away for his friends is a huge part of his charm for me also. Well, with most people, when someone sacrifices for you without expecting anything in return, you try a little harder for them until we end up like the Strawhats. For some reason, however, Yona’s getting the sacrifice but she isn’t giving anything up in return. Well we saw in the Fire-Kai arc that she doesn’t have a problem risking their lives to save Suwon so there’s your answer to that. :p

      You’re so right about Yona’s lack of resolve bringing down the story. Weirdly enough, that’s an aspect of her character that the mangaka could’ve developed. As a princess locked up in the castle, Yona’s life was decided by her father who didn’t allow her into the town, who was going to choose an heir, and who had planned that Yona’s son would take the throne, etc. Without the cushion of the fancy castle, Yona had an opportunity to choose the direction of her own life. But instead of Yona resolving to either live as a commoner or to take back the throne or avenge her father or to investigate what happened between her father, her uncle, and her grandfather…we see Ik-Soo’s prophecies and Yun largely deciding where she’ll go and what she’ll do. She may have super-powered servants rather than regulars now, but I find that she’s no more in control of her life than when she started. Aside from wanting to fight I mean. Stubbornness was already a character trait with her.

      I know right? That would’ve been a perfect response. But that’s actually another example of what frustrates me so much about how these characters interact with Yona. Even when they’re supposed to be giving her advice, they end up coddling her and giving her permission to go on doing whatever she intended to do.

      That tends to happen to people who don’t sit down and think through their story before writing it. I’m thinking she pitched the premise of the story but didn’t have more than a fuzzy outline in mind.

      True.

      That’s a good point. I would actually say that the people of Kai are another example of how the will power of the people can be enough to make life better.

      Suwon says on this page: http://mangafox.me/manga/akatsuki_no_yona/v01/c002/13.html that he’s been living for the day he’d murder Il for the last 10 years. The timeline is slightly off I think since he was already 9 when his father died, but the point still stands that he had developed killing intent at 9-10ish. I’ll have to disagree a bit. I think that Suwon was genuinely a sweet and gentle kid, as evidenced by his treatment of Yona, but I think that he had a neutral side in his patience and determination, and a dark side which would be the sly, deceptive, manipulating. Some of that would’ve also been a function of his personality. Suwon wasn’t and isn’t like Yu-Hon or Hak. Manipulation and the use of favors with strings attached would’ve been his most effective means of getting things done.

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    67. True. But I mean, it’s still hard to believe that a group of politically savvy men would allow their prejudices to get in the way of making money a la Earth. I’d go for that but it would appear that Yu-Hon didn’t believe in the priests and Il’s failure to bring the priests back would also suggest that he didn’t really believe in religion as such either although their father clearly did. I definitely agree that Il was afraid of and avoiding something when he kept Yona in the castle. I’m open to being convinced, but I just don’t see signs that either Il or Yu-Hon took prophecies very seriously.


      Yeah. It’s unfortunate that he’s really deteriorated as the story has progressed in that respect. He started off decent with his plans to bring Yona back to the castle and his awareness of Yona’s weaknesses and strengths, but somewhere along the way he became a fanboy like you said. Smh. It’s a total waste.


      Yeah I think you’re describing what I mean better than I did. Also, I think that people who jump into everything often have to hide their intensity from others. But yeah, Yona’s inconsiderateness will send me into another rant so I’ll just agree and leave it alone.

      That’s a good point. Kat and I were speculating that Yona likely had something to do with that. My issue is that Hak was never a servant in the sense that Min Soo was. He was one of only 5 men in Kouka with authority that would’ve effectively been second only to the king’s and at that he still stood above his peers due to his age and his strength. Yona, although she was the princess and the royal line went through her, never had that kind of clout. So yeah, while I could see Hak and Min Soo bonding over their impossible charge and Hak hanging out with the servants more than the nobles because he’s more comfortable with honest people, he’s always been a man of stature. It’s ridiculous that Il had to point that out to Yona and that 100+ chapters later she still doesn’t get it. But yeah, I think that you’re right about him adopting the mantra as a defense.

      You’re right about Yona causing a lot of Hak’s suffering. I’m not sure who to be annoyed with when it comes to that. On the one hand, nobody in the story is telling her to do better. At the same time, it’s hard to watch her act like this because the story’s painting her behavior as cute and sympathetic. So I can’t decide if I’m frustrated with the character herself or her writer.


      Haha. I don’t blame you and I completely agree about the one-sidedness. While I agree that Yona doesn’t owe her love, she does IMO owe Hak gratitude and thanks. Her failure to appreciate Hak as a human being also makes it hard to believe that she actually values him as her childhood friend. I wonder if her difficulty in thinking about the lives of commoners extends to Hak as well…which is actually kind of ugly in light of his accomplishments.

      I think she’ll confess before the last chapter. The question, as Kat has said, is whether the mangaka will be able to pull it off in a convincing and satisfying manner.

      Lol. So true. I think that character elevation (and character degradation due to said character elevation such as with Zeno, Hak, etc) is a problem in this story. Yes Yona’s supposed to be amazing compared to other girls, but in order to get those results, the other girls and other male characters for that matter have often had to be arbitrarily downgraded for Yona to shine. The obvious solution as a writer would’ve been to improve Yona’s character, give her agency, and use constructive criticism in-story. I mean, how hard would it have been for Yona to have learned first aid by now so that she could help treat the guys when they get hurt? That could’ve been her skill at Awa. I know I speculated on it before, but I’m becoming convinced that the mangaka is becoming too attached to Yona to handle her character objectively.

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    68. Yup ,usually even when they get angry it is all for nothing since a glance from the guy who is usually a jerk and they will start to breakdown and fall for him all over again .Honestly i find a lot of manga characters mainly female of course to be very disturbing .I mean a lot of manga are read by young girls and maybe they will think it’s okay for a woman to be submissive and pathetic . I wonder if it is a culture thing ,if japanese view women like that or if they are really like that either way it’s scary how lame most of them are .

      True ,kyouko has shown intense resolve and will power to never make the same mistakes twice and that’s of course mainly in her love for ren .Where she refuses to become the pathetic girl she was once when in love with shou ,but with ren she want to keep those feelings in check .But kyouko has yet to notice that she is no longer old kyouko and ren unlike shou is very mature so no there would be no problem if she is more open in her love for him ,he won’t take advantage of it or make fun of her anyway we will leave this discussion for the SB threads ^^

      That’s so very true ,yup she can get credits for realizing that while she was living in a fancy castle others were dying because they had nothing to eat but what about the rest ? Also before going any further i’ve to say something that i find ugh about yona .Her whole journey to be robinhood right the wrong feed the poor and blah blah blah the reason why it’s so meh ,if you think about it .Is because yona didn’t gain any real awareness as a real king as real leader /princess because if she did she would notice that the problems are really deeply rooted (we talked about the general ,the people …etc) and that for kouka to get up on it’s feet to be really strong country ,she would need to go the root of the problem change the country ,the people /general mentality from it’s very core .But since her thoughts are more along the lines of « because of daddy alot of people didn’t have what to eat so i’m gonna feed them to fix that « she is limited in everything she does that’s the problem yet she is treated as if she creating a revolution in the country
      And yeah another thing would be her poor judgement in term of relationships after all what happened yet she refuses to face reality is a huge proof of how she fails as a person not even as a king .I mean ik-soo could’ve given her the advice of « some betrayal are harder to accept than others but if you want to move you get accept them and be done with it » my problem is that we have never seen her even try to throw away that hairpin that alone speak volumes about how she is didn’t move on from her past and it doesn’t matter what she says or do or what others think she is .
      I agree with what you said about the Awa pirates and truth to be told I’ve never been impressed with them but what i think is that compared to the other people in kouka they are great .You are absolutely right about that and i told you the same but regarding her group .I mean look we got a general a 2000+years old guy +Jeha who knows a lot about kouka and how the world works those three should be the ones to make the big decisions not yona they should be the ones to lead their group not her .Yet the way everybody end up dancing to yona’s tune is so very uggghhh I can’t find the right word to describe the feeling but i think you get what I mean ^^
      Yup how these guys decided to send in yun and yona who are the weakest and less experienced just for the sake of making her shine was lame ,the reason why the captain allowed her in was also lame it shouldn’t be enough for a mission where a lot of lives were on the lines .

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    69. Ya and like I told you in very rare cases do we see that being stubborn is a good thing .In yona’s case it ‘s bad very bad . I mean look she is an ignorant little girl yet I don’t remember a time just one time where she asked the opinions of others ,when others tell her not to do something she does and it is supposed to be badass and brave .I’m sorry but when you are weak and try to dangerous stuff it is dumb rather than brave .She is the one deciding everything like she knows a damn thing and it’s so dumb it’s like the author is trying to do everything to make her shine and she fails because everytime it feels forced as if she is trying to force the yona is badass down our throats .
      Also a lot of time she jumps into fight without a second thoughts knowing that she doesn’t have the strength and others would get hurt because they would always try to shield her . I mean I’ve an example that comes to mind and it’s not the let’s save SW and pretend it’s for kouka thing during the fire tribe arc but what happened in the water tribe arc .Do you remember when yona protected Lili and got her back slashed and then BD came in to save the day ,there was this scene that I thought was really really really really lame and an example of I call forced coolness /badassness .When BD was about to cut hiyou and be done with him she was like stop just so she could slash his face and say something along the line of be quiet now please explain to me what was that supposed to be mean ? We were supposed to think how badass now if it ended here it would be okay .Because she did that to that psycho ,many girls were kidnapped and killed .Since the guy was nuts to begin with and she pushed him to his limits by doing that he called in the kai merchants which gave SW the excuse to invade …etc But she never think of stuff like that and no one oh god no one tells her stuff like that .I wish there was one person to set her straight because the girl doesn’t think about the consequences of her acts she doesn’t think at all she just act and who cares if war break out or people die ,I mean even hak got hurt because of her when hiyou stabbed his arm .Yet she never think ofher actions never is there someone to question her ways and it’s give me a great deal of frustration . I know that this is ficition but even it’s a story about demons or dragons or whatever is too much to ask for something that makes sense ?
      I agree ,if yona end up as queen at the end it won’t be because she deserve it or because she is fit for the job .Nope it will probably be because of SW or a prophecy of some sort ,because she is supposed to be hiryuu 2.0 .

      Ya ,I feel like the author can’t handle a long series ,maybe AnY got popular so it was extended beyond what she intended at first .That’s true it not only lack cohesion but it also lack any kind of coherence .Oh yes we talked about that in the past and just like kat i believe that there is no planning . I mean stuff seems to happen in a very random way ,no forshadowing or conflict or plot or villain so can’t really say this has a plan . Take One piece for example now that’s a manga that is well planned just a simple example is the incredible forshadowing he uses ,the tontana were introduced in dressrosa arc yet they were first mentioned in chapter 200 something in skypiea arc when norland said i visited a land of midgets . Doffy’s brother him being a marine was forshadowed when film Z came out there was a chapter on the front cover with all the marines and if you look carefully you will see him .When I read OP i feel that everything makes sense and is tied together and i love it .To me a good story is like at a puzzle at the beginning you have pieces which are a mess and then slowly as the story advance you will assemble them and get a nice picture at the end .In AnY it is just a mess .

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    70. I know but like I said above she doesn’t listen now ,so why would she listen later on .When you live in a group and said group knows more than you do isn’t it normal to ask for adivse ?But nope she doesn’t so i don’t know she will do it in the future but I agree she will sit on the throne but there is a tiny bit of chance that it won’t happen .
      I agree that she lacks in the human departement .It is like the first fire tribe arc when BD used his dragon power for the first time and yona was kidnapped by thieves who killed the little boy .And yona was going on about how i’m weak i can’t protect those i care about and i can’t show this guys how to live .That moment made me facepalm so hard you can’t even imagine ,now allow me to further explain it .The guy replied you don’t know what’s like to be hungry to the point of becoming mad or wanting to die somehing along those lines .Yet she continued to argue with him about how it’s bad and blah blah blah this ties exactly to your comment about not understanding human nature because if she did she wouldn’t lecture the guy when herself she has never experienced real suffering or starvation so she has no room to lecture others or say arrogant stuff like showing them how to live their lives because to me that’s very arrogant statement .More than understanding their suffering she just want to fix what her dad did wrong ,because if she was that type of person when she saw in kai tha the poor were getting trampled she would resolve herself to help them but no since SW is the one attacking .I mean we saw a tiny bit of hiryuu but it seems like he was sad about how there will probably be peace ,yona never think about stuff like that . Going back to the show them how to live ,she knows nothing of the world nor has she a proper goal ye is arrogant enough to think she can do that .I mean even if she was a saint i would find that to be arrogant .A king in my opinion should be a person who pushes his people forward and give them the means to improve their lives and let them make their own choices it isn’t up to him to show them how to live ,for a person to think she /he can do that he gotta have one hell of an ego .So yeah I agree with what you said .

      Ya ,and I would understand if she did that only with the dragons (even if it is still awful) but hak really ?No one has given her as much as he did yet can you tell me what he got in return except having his heart broken many times .To me yona has owned the right to have so much devotion from her group ;but luffy did i understand why the strawhats love him so much .Even if he is an idiot he has one hell of a heart ,since he can give all of it to those he cares about .He never once worried about his life when his friends were in danger ,he always repaid other people kindness .Like in amazon lilly arc when the girls who helped him out got turned into a stone and hancock offered a choice either a ship to live or help the girls and without thinking he picked the girls and even bowed to her when she was the one in the wrong .Yona not only doesn’t show the same amount of dedication to her crew but she is also not honest with them about her journey about why she is doing it and also about SW now you may say it’s personal she doesn’ t have to tell them but look when people are risking their lives for you ,you can’t keep secrets like that .If they knew that they risked their lives in fire arc to save SW wonder how they would react ? I wonder how they would react if they knew she is in love with him ?
      Luffy on the other hand is so very honest with what he wants and he really does value his crew .Like in the arlong arc i think when he told arlong ,I won’t be to go anywhere if i was alone ,i can’t use swords ,i can’t cook ,i can’t read maps or navigate , i can’t lie ^^ and he continued by saying i don’t want to continue my journey alone . I don ‘t recall such a moment where yona admits that alone she won’t go anywhere ,oh well i think you get my point ^^

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    71. Oh that’s a good point and it’s tied to the no goal problem .When you said yona hasn’t chosen between being a princess and take back the throne or living as a commoner and the other stuff which are related to take back the throne . I mean just what does yona think she is now ? when she told hak don’t forget Am a princess .Cause to me she is just a commoner playing robinhood and that’s it ,she need to realize that she is no longer a princess and that hak has no obligation toward her ,she has no right to act like it .I mean if someone from the castle see her he will try to kill her ,those in power clearly reject her she has nothing left so why still act like a princess ,and try to remind hak of it .But she didn’t catch on that because if she did and simply continued her joureny as just yona things would be way different ,if she tried to act as a citizen of kouka then yeah it would be more likeable of her ,but she cling to a title that she has lost and the result isn’t too pleasing .She says she can’t do what she want to do in a castle like act like a princess what the hell ,I mean you can’t be both pick one and give up the other going back and forth is ughhh just NO .
      True and that’s something we don’t get in one piece do you remember in water seven when usopp and luffy had the big fight over going merry and usopp left the crew ? and when they got up from enies lobby and luffy tried to go fetch usopp and zoro said was angry and said no he has to apologize first because this a journey where we are risking our lives and we can’t count on someone who just leave like that ,something along those lines .What did luffy do ,he listened even if he wanted to go because zoro was right . In AnY we never hear the others opinions ,yona never ask for it and she never listen what saved them up until now is their strength and that’s it .Again i think you get my point ,I can’t view yona and co as a unit as a group ,it is yona and the others .Not like strawhat crew who are like a family ^^

      Oh i forgot about that ,but no matter if it was 10 years or less than that ,what we can say is that he was planning to kill yona’s dad and betray them for years .When he was smiling to their faces he was waiting for the time to strike and threw their lives in chaos ;now we know hak knows only yona doesn’t know .I agree that he was sweet but i disagree on innocent part because keeping secrets and being manipualtive when you are 9 years old isn’t innocent at all .The point is SW isn’t someone you can’t trust because he will stop at nothing to achieve his goals .

      Oh I threw in the prophecy thing just like that and just like with your father killed mine ,the author may leave at that ,so yeah with this manga i don’t think there is a need to look deeply into things .

      True and he has so much more to offer than being a simple fanboy or being strong but the author must have felt th need to slaughter her other character to let yona shine the most .
      Yup ,but tell that to yona ,the only think she has and he doesn’t is she is of high birth and he isn’t but except for that he surpass her in every aspect .Fighting ,military and political knowledge ,he has a better understanding of human relationships and feelings and is so much more considerate .Yona need to understand that she has no right to treat him as a servant .Yup ,hak understood how the rich lived and prefered to hang out with commoners that’s also something i like about him despite all his skills and his fame he doesn’ t have a big attitude he is confident but not full of himself .

      Yup ,the « i’m a servant you are my master thing » is i believe to protect his heart he doesn’t want to expect things when he knows that SW is in her heart and he will probably always be there so i can’t

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    72. blame him .True what makes me feel so annoyed with yona ‘s behavior toward hak is how no one for example jeha tell her about it ,also about how her attitude is supposed to be nice and cute when it isn’t ,i think the author is trying too hard to hype a character who isn’t worth any type of hype .She is poorly written yet others drool over her that’s why it gives me a headache everytime .

      Like i said before the only person ,she seems to think about SW and that’s it .Those are risking their lives for her aren’t worth that much effort .

      I doubt that i will be convinced but i will wait and see and yeah many yona fangirl want and believe that it’s hak that should confess and that makes me facepalm with both my hands .It’s like hasn’t the guy already given enough you want him to even confess first ??? what the hell if it does happen that way i would be so pissed usually i’m agains female confessing first but in this case she has to be done he has nothing left to give her .
      Yup ,and she should give other girls/males enough screen time to say if yona is better or not and she has to understand that there is no need to spit on one character to make another look better .Because if it’s the case ,yona should’ve been the one character in the whole manga since she treats others who are obviously better like trash .I mean even if all the characters were a hundred times better there were still ways to make her character without treating the others as trash .Yet again i believe you get my point ^^

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    73. Ah, I see, sofia. And speaking of that, she knew about it but never bothered to ask the priest why Yuhon did that. ^^; I guess Yona is just not that curious enough on what had happened.

      True.

      Ah, regarding the feed the hungry, and take care of the sick, did they do that for a long time? I'm thinking that maybe it is okay since that is what those people needed at that time. Then, later on, when they are 'healthy', they can somewhat teach them how to plant and stuff with some help from fire dude.

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    74. Japan seems to have a more collectivist culture so I would guess that to a certain extent submissiveness would be considered a more positive quality although the end result in manga is often, as you say, rather pathetic. But I mean, I’m not convinced that female disempowerment/passiveness in media is a purely Japanese problem. Even in the western world, a woman will get messages that tell her it’s better to be subordinate to men like, for instance, with dating advice and the idea that she can’t be too aggressive or she’ll risk the relationship. Depending on her subculture, like in some branches of Christianity, she may even grow up learning that her body is her future husband’s property while being denied the ability to find her own way outside of the parameters prescribed by her denomination. So I think that while maybe Japanese understandings of women might be trickling into these pathetic manga characters, at the same time, I think that there may be a shared cultural value at play here. Though SB’s popularity suggests that the tides may change. ^^ IMO anyway.

      I agree about Ren and Kyouko. For sure.^^

      You’re right about giving her credit for realizing that people suffered while she lived in bliss and you’re also right that she’s being overrated while not seeing the big picture. Completely agree about Yona failing to face reality and about your take on what that means for her as a person. Well, part of the problem with the hairpin is that the group is still coddling her. They’re letting her learn at her own pace, they’re bending over backwards to protect her feelings, praising her, etc. Positive reinforcement is a good thing, but not when it comes at the expense of growth, which IMO is what we’re seeing with Yona. Because now we end up with things like the hairpin being accepted and her “revolutionary” style of “leadership”. Yeah. The pirates certainly were more proactive than the others we’ve seen.

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    75. See I totally agree about how the group keeps deferring to Yona when they shouldn’t be. I believe that’s actually one of the more egregious examples of how details that should be reflected in the story are often dropped, not developed, or developed in the wrong direction. The 2000+ year old guy simply doesn’t focus enough to make important decisions, but I get your point. The thing I really don’t understand about their collective decisions to defer to Yona is that we aren’t really given a decent in-story explanation for why nobody else says anything except to report information (like what we saw with Hak explaining that the Kai skirmish wasn’t about Water). Even if we allowed Yona to be the boss, that doesn’t mean that they aren’t allowed to propose better ideas or to flat out point out that they’re not machines and that some of them may be too injured to deal with serious fighters. Luckily for everyone, IMO the mangaka won’t allow Yona to fail when it matters. If this real life, however, the smart money would be on Suwon.

      It’s true. Yun going because he’s got brains would’ve made sense to me but again, one of the dragons or Hak should’ve gone with him to save time and provide muscle. IMO you just can’t talk a big game about wanting to take back your city and lay everything on the line but then proceed to rest all your hopes on an incredibly flawed plan because “the Thunder Beast is a key part of our fighting force”. If it’s supposed to be the final mission and this is the most important part of it, you send your best people period. Because, like you said, there are a lot of lives at stake if you fail.


      You’re so right about Yona’s stubbornness and assumed decision-making. I agree. It’s definitely looking increasingly like Yona’s badassness is being shoved down our throats. I wonder though if the reckless behavior wasn’t supposed to have a Luffy-like effect? Awa and the Water arc gave me OP-type vibes and it’s not unusual to see Luffy make decisions about going places like Skypeia, the crew finds a serious problem, an epic battle ensues, Luffy takes down the big bad, and everything’s all good. In pretty much every arc Luffy fights hard and in OP we’re often touched by Luffy’s recklessness. In any case, yeah, it’s very transparent how the story keeps bending the rules in order to accommodate Yona.

      That’s a good point and I think it goes back to what we said earlier about Yona still being a fundamentally selfish person with a limited (albeit better than before) perspective. In the scene you’re talking about, Yona prioritized her need to be cool over the needs of the people of the city because, as you point out, she’s not thinking about them even though she keeps framing her work as being for them. It’d be nice if someone who knew something about human nature had said something for sure but honestly, when other girls ended up losing their lives or being kidnapped because she chose being badass over being pragmatic (she was going to get the credit anyway), she shouldn’t have even needed someone else to tell her she’d messed up. That Yona’s conscience didn’t appear to kick in…is not good.

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    76. That’s kind of the strange thing about the execution. A woman who doesn’t hesitate to fight for others is, on paper, demonstrating a positive quality. And as we’ve said, Luffy’s willingness to sacrifice for his friends is a big part of his appeal. Perhaps the reason why it’s not attractive here is because, like you said, others are the ones getting hurt protecting her. Not to mention that BD already had Hiyou under control when she slashed his face so it’s harder to admire that.

      I hear you about the importance of having your fiction make sense. In some respects, fiction needs to be truer than real life IMO to be enjoyable.

      Well in light of what we’ve seen, being Hiryuu 2.0 is probably the best qualification she has haha.

      I thought NG Life was reasonably long and I think that AnY was supposed to be a little bit longer than that. But I figure that, as you point out with OP, it’s definitely possible to have a long series that demonstrates evidence of planning. I completely agree about stories being like puzzles. I’m just hoping that we get answers to some of the questions about the plot we’ve been exploring.

      I don’t see Yona getting away with not listening as queen though. The generals are headstrong and compromise is often needed to keep the political peace. And with Yun making the decisions in his role as adviser, it’ll probably be a similar dynamic to now where Yun will decide who’s sleeping where and when Yona questions him he has an explanation she can’t refute.

      Oh man. Slightly off-topic, but I strongly dislike the use of children’s deaths to paint the arc villains as despicable people. It’s always sad to see children at risk, of course, but I feel like the children are being tug our heart strings and make us cheer the gang. Yes. Yona choosing to argue and place herself above the people she’s supposed to be helping with that comment sums up a serious underlying issue with her character. Good point about Suwon being the one attacking. Well, as we were pointing out, there’s an ego involved with all of this and I’d argue that she’s still acting in service to her ego which is why she’s not taking the time to understand what drives the “bad guys” unless the bad guy happens to be Suwon. Yeah. I agree.

      Yeah. That’s actually why I was saying in the other thread that the mangaka should’ve written the departure from Fuuga differently. If she had asked Hak to come with her and Hak had refused, then Yona should’ve told him she was leaving anyway and started walking. Knowing that Yona was too weak to survive on her own, he would’ve followed her and then the story could’ve found ways to cement for Yona that Hak was there purely by choice and that unlike the dragons, he could actually leave her. And I’ve mentioned this before but it steams me how Yona’s willing to risk their lives but she’s unwilling to learn how to do things like cook, mend clothes, or treat less serious injuries so that Yun and the others can focus on other things.

      You’re right about the lack of honesty and I think you’ve pinpointed something that really bothers me about how Yona interacts with her crew. From a moral standpoint, I have sub-zero patience for people who expect others to sacrifice or die in order to protect their ideals while giving dishonest grounds. Because when you think about it, Yona’s trying to protect the vision of Suwon that she fell in love with and she’s not bothering to tell the men who are risking their lives for her the truth. Luffy has a heart and you’re right that he’s honest with himself and others. He does good, but he doesn’t couch things in terms of “doing what’s best for the people” and whatever else. He’s honest about the fact that he’s trying to become Pirate King and that he’s just helping his friends. As you point out, that’s not the case with Yona.

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    77. Don’t forget that you’re dealing with the Designated Main Character (with capitals). :D IMO Hak would act about the same because he knows that Yona doesn’t want to kill Suwon and that she’s in love with him. The dragons and Yun would sympathize with her –talking about “tragic love” and commending her bravery in telling them about such a painful personal memory. I can already see Jeha or Zeno making some deep comment about how it’s hard to go on when you’re heart is torn between the father’s legacy and the love of her life and commending her strength. You know I’m right. :p

      You’re right and that’s so tragic. Yona, IMO, knows that the other guys are stronger than her and that she needs them to cook and clean and whatever else. But I mean, Luffy has taken an honest look at his limitations and he appreciates his friends and what their diversity has meant to him. Yona, on the other hand, still hasn’t accepted the fact that she’s weaker than the guys and that they don’t need her help on the battlefield. She’s so far in denial about this that she prioritizes her need to feel needed over the need of her crew to be safe as we saw most recently in the village of Hak’s mini-me where Hak told her to go back and she refused to do so when he explained that she’d slow him down. Though she did go back when he told her that she was needed by the villagers so she gets some credit there. But still. I agree with your point about Yona there.

      That’s a great observation. I get the impression that Yona thinks of herself as a princess and that she wants that external confirmation of the fact that she’s princess, but that she’s a princess “temporarily embarrassed”. Like I said before, she takes a very noblesse oblige approach to social ills. IMO that doesn’t make sense unless she still considers her station to be somewhat above the non-royals around her. Which also plays into what you pointed out about that whole “showing these people how to live” comment. You’re right that those in power clearly reject her, but Yona doesn’t appear to understand how power works and Hak’s the one who’s experiencing the aftermath. If she knew, she’d realize that she had none even as a princess and that she’s very fortunate that Hak had feelings for her from the beginning. Hak being her bodyguard was an amazing opportunity to network and make connections through him since she couldn’t leave the castle. If it was Hak, Il might’ve even started allowing her to explore the capital city a bit. But she never realized that royalty is in a precarious position and that she needed to secure allies. In the end, when Suwon took over there was only two people on her side and at that Min Soo was Hak’s friend rather than Yona’s.

      Also you’re totally right about how her clinging to her past isn’t good. I’ve been thinking for a while now that the mangaka might’ve been better off creating Yona as a commoner in the beginning or axing this plot thread where Yona is a reincarnated god. The thing is, Yona apparently can’t function without placing herself somewhere near the top of the food chain. I genuinely believe that if Yona had tried to undergo her journey without leveraging her title of princess and was put in a situation like what we nearly saw in Fuuga, of her being treated like everybody else, we’d see more equity in terms of her dedication to the group and her ability to recognize when other people are doing her a favor.

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    78. I completely agree about the group’s strength saving them more than anything else. Yeah that example with Luffy, Zoro, and Usopp is exactly right. But part of that is that Luffy has an accurate understanding of his own weaknesses and deficiencies. He values what Zoro has to say, which Yona really doesn’t with the others aside from perhaps the medical field where she’s happy to defer to Yun. Yeah. OP is a larger cast done right.

      Gentle. Not innocent. Suwon applies indirect pressure to achieve what he wants when he’s being devious. He’s not trustworthy and he keeps secrets and the like, but again, I think that’s a function of his personality. He’s smart and he understands how society works and what his most effective means of achieving changes would be given his own strengths and weaknesses as a person. I’m pretty Sun Tzu said something about knowing oneself and knowing ones enemy being necessary in order to win your battles. I think that what’s happened is that Yona doesn’t know herself and she’s in denial about her enemy which is yet another reason why by rights she really shouldn’t be queen when this is all over.


      That’s the thing. I feel like when it’s all over, I’ll be looking back on things and being like “Wow. I completely overthought this one.” Either that or “Frankly, our idea was better for the story…”. I hear you on the prophecy thing. I’m already kind of thinking that they’ll likely stumble into the clues they need by accident.

      I’m finding that most of our characterization issues can be traced back to a need to let Yona shine.

      See I think that’s why absolutely nobody other than Yona considered Hak to be second-rate as a person with legit position in Kouka. Unlike some of the others who were always close to the position through family or whatever, Hak wasn’t going to be a part of that set before his adoption. He had to be that much more talented, smarter, and gifted than many of the others in order to be as socially mobile as he became in that society. Agreed. I just feel like Yona never had a right to treat him like a servant since generals don’t become bodyguards for nothing. And she has even less of a right to do so now.

      Yeah. I like that characteristic too. It’s too bad he’s now a fanboy, hype man, and part-time love interest. When he’s apart from Yona, he really does have a lot to offer as a character.


      I get you and you’re right that he’s using it to protect his heart IMO and I agree that he’s not to blame for that. The thing is, Yona, if Hak really is her childhood friend whose awesome combat skills are being put to use as her bodyguard, doesn’t have to agree with him when he says “I’m a servant” even if we put aside my objections to that characterization. If Nami were to say “I’m just a navigator. I’m here to make sure you get from point A to point B. Use me as a tool to reach your destination.”, Luffy wouldn’t just accept that. He’d say something like “What are you talking about? You’re my nakama.” Even if Yona was in love with Suwon, Hak was supposed to be her other best friend. There’s a certain way that you treat the people who matter to you and that wasn’t it.

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    79. Yes. There’s no room to improve her behavior towards Hak unless she has an epiphany herself and you know how I feel about how the story plays this as funny and cute. It’s like what you said earlier about young girls reading this genre and seeing these characters and relationships playing out. We saw with Kyouko that it’s unhealthy for one person to be giving everything while the other one just expects them to be there all the time. I’m all for a story where the female lead isn’t begging her romantic interest for crumbs off the table, but reversing the genders doesn’t make that type of behavior any more acceptable. The fact that they do have that master/servant relationship makes it even worse IMO because Yona’s in a position of power and she’s using that position to extract what she needs out of a guy who, to be clear, was never a servant and she’s doing so to his detriment but she doesn’t appear to care.

      Yeah. You’re right…and it’s still very ugly.

      True. I’m increasingly thinking that we’ll have to see self-awareness and a sincere apology from Yona before I’ll even remotely begin to buy this relationship as a good one. Haha. The fangirls remind me of what I read when Twilight came out about how sometimes the female leads in these types of stories are written a little bit bland so that the female readers will picture themselves as the female lead. I wonder if maybe because we’re looking at this more as literature that we’re missing something that makes a Hak confession make sense. Not saying that all the people who want Hak to confess are doing it for those reasons, but it’s so much better from a storytelling standpoint if she confesses first lol.


      The problem is that I think it’s an either/or situation when it comes to Yona’s portrayal. Either the story has to stop coddling her so that the highs and lows come out on their own, or the other characters have to be downgraded in order to highlight her. But I think it’s like Kat was saying earlier about the concern of Yona being outshone. You’d think that, like we see with Ren to Kyouko, that a strong and impressive character would be an excellent opportunity for Yona to see how far she has to go or whatever. Yet as we see with Hak and co., that’s not how it usually works out in this manga. Plus the other problem is that the naivety would have to go and I have to go with what Kat and I were thinking which is that the naivety is supposed to be cute and funny. Aside from White’s fear of bugs and Yun’s cautiousness being used to hype the two of them, I can’t think of too many other things the mangaka regularly uses to provide comedy. It’s not that she can’t use personalities to create humor, because I thought Sky’s earnestness and Earth’s laidback to the point of carelessness made for some funny interactions at points. I could be wrong there…?


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    80. @KAT

      Yup ,I think this lack of Curiousity has a tie to what I stated before about how yona accepted really easily about what SW told her that he killed her dad and what others said about him being worthless king .Is something she accepted and we have never seen her question her dad's motives or what really happened .But of course that's something that's worth doing only for SW .I mean she found a way to just SW killing her dad yet she couldn't justify her dad's being a pacifist except that he was a coward and weak ???

      You know AnY and yona herself as a character may at first glance seem like amazing but you just have to scratch the surface and you will see that it is far from it .

      Is that so ? I mean isn't she trying to fix what her dad did wrong because that may help for today but on the long term whatever she did amount to nothing ,but whatever we have already talked about this point alot I think it's pretty clear that what she is doing is charity work and that's it .


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    81. I agree it’s seems like women are treated as being Inferior all over the world .In japan they are viewed or expected to be submissive housewives types .In the west it’s more of a sex object type of treatment either way it’s sucks and it’s unfair and I believe that since manga are popular all over the world and by very young people as well as grown of course but to me it’s possible that the kids will think that that’s the way women should be submissive pathetic with no dream except getting the guy who is usually a jerk and boys will think it’s okay to be that way I mean jerk type of guy who treat girls like trash .I mean it isn’t far fetched right ?

      True ,if we had at least one person to set her straight and to tell her to move on ,pick either the princess thing and get back the throne and keep your damn hairpin .Or pick the commoner option ,throw the hairpin and all what it stand for but don’t do both .But yeah everybody is praising her and blah blah blah and what’s worse is that they don’t know that she loves SW and the hairpin is from him and even if they knew I doubt they will be upset but give her some blah blah about love and blah blah blah .

      Yup it makes no sense and there is no reason to let yona make all the choices for them because she doesn’t have the strength to back up her choices like when she went to save SW if things turned ugly and the dragons and hak were defeated it would be impossible for her to do a thing and she also has no military or political knowledge ,she doesn’t even know the territory of kouka as well as hak does .So yeah that’s a load of nonsense but like you said there is always someone ready to save yona .Maybe someone in her group needs to die or lose an arm for her to change her ways and even there I doubt she will .Yup if it were me i would place my money on SW .

      Yup and they could’ve taken another option sent yun with hak or jeha who would for example take yun hostage to earn the trust of the villains and join the ship .He would be able to protect yun save the girls and kickass but no since yona gave them her fiery glare they agreed to be the lives of all the girls that were on the boat honestly that was reallllllllllly lammmmmmmmmmme and like a lot of situations yona was involved it felt forced .
      Well it is true that luffy is really reckless and it’s part of his simple minded nature that has love for two things meat and aventure but you have to keep in mind is that luffy has the strength to back up his reckless choices ,yona doesn’t .Also when he felt that his crew was really in danger and he couldn’t do a thing (when they faced kizaru and the pacifistas ) he told his crew to run away which he never does Yona on the other when they went to face two armies to save SW she didn’t not think twice about her crew who will have to do the fighting yet again this shows that she lacks as a person and as a leader .Also everytime luffy kicked ass was to help one of his friends like in dressrosa he wanted to help because rebecca gave him food ,because law suffered because of doffy and because he just felt sorry for the people that’s all .He doesn’t try to be a hero or something like that and like I said all these people he helped will turn out to be his allies when the time comes and he has to face the world gov in a big battle in yona i don’t see the point of what she is doing

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    82. Yup and the thing is that she isn’t even cool or badass when she did that i mean when i first saw it i was like what the hell was that for ?Yup you made an excellent point is that after the girls were being kidnapped and probably killed ,kai attacked and so she gave SW gave the excuse to go to war and look at those people that died ,hak was injured because of her yet she never thought that she did anything wrong .I mean it’s one thing to not have a voice of reason in the manga but the heroine herself doesn’t seem to question her own choices and mistakes because this was a huge mistake ,had BD sliced his head things would have never gone that far but yet again this aspect is tossed aside and what’s left yona was so cool and brave when facing hiyou …facepalm .

      Ya like I told you the way things work is YONA and the others .Not only is her relationship with hak onesided but so is her relationships with the other characters .That’s so lame T_T
      Yup ,I believe that when you have a long story if you know how to handle it ,it’s a chance to expend the universe of your manga which we don’t get in AnY to me all the tribes looks the same .Focus on all of your characters and their feelings goals thoughts which we don’t get either in AnY .My point is what’s the point of AnY being that long since none of the aspects stated above have been given proper focus .I love NG life it so much better than yona .
      Oh well ,it seems like she can ,the generals listened to Il didn’t they and oh well he end up dying like trash so yeah she can’t get away with it .And after all what happened I just don’ t see her becoming queen with those generals who didn’t even bother looking deeper into her supposed death .It makes no sense at all .
      Well ,I may sound awful but I’ve never felt sorry for any of the people we have seen so far yeah kids dying is awful but in this series i’m like meh what else .But in the law flashback when we saw how kids got killed when he was in the white city that was awful really sad .In this series nope i felt nothing because it was all for yona to gain resolve and make her look good .In OP it shows the cruelty of the world gov and how harsh law’s life was .
      Yes and this ego of her is tied to the princess thing and the fact she didn’t make her choice ,either a simple citizen of kouka or it’s princess not both .Ya it was so arrogant to place herself above these dudes as if she knew what is it to struggle with all you got .But yeah the only whose motives she try to think about and justify is SW and SW alone .

      Yup that could’ve been a nice way to do things but sadly yona owns her group they aren’t an actual team that yona had to convince to join her .Also ,you are right that yona is way to focused on fighting when she isn’t even that skilled .She could’ve learned how to treat wounds like you said or cook .But like we said before everything about her is limited .

      Yup ,that’s really unfair toward the group because in reality they are risking their lives to protect yona’s love interest and his ideals .But like you said even if they knew they would probably give her some blah blah blah speech about feelings and love and all we can do is facepalm .Luffy is honesty itself the crew followed on their own wills and now exactly what he is fighting for and the way he is and accepted it yona ‘s journey is one big lie .Torn between her dad and SW that’s not even true but i could see one of them making that comment when yona always was pro SW since the start ^^

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    83. Yes good point not only is he aware the he needs his crew but he also doesn’t meddle in their business Unlike where yona always tries to jump into fights when she just add work to the other because they will have to fight and protect her .Yeah the baby hak arc was yet another proof she needs to realize that she is a burden in battle but no she is being stubborn and like I said since she is will end up causing more troubles it is not badass or brave but just dumb .
      Yeah somehow she doesn’t try to deal with people as being her equal but it’s more like I’m the princess I will be the one to show you how to live and that kind of crap .Yeah she needs to realize that her being a princess as well as her dragons isn’t something she earned but it’s rather something she inherited from her dad and her being hiryuu 2.0 .Hak on the other hand all what we has /had in the past is something he worked hard in order to achieve it .Ya ,with hak besides her since she was young she could’ve done alot of things but she didn’t do it and even now she doesn’t so yeah hak is wasted on someone like her with SW he would’ve shined but sadly he had better to do than be a general and that’s be in a harem .Ya it’s only one guy besides hak who helped her that’s why i don’t see how she can get the throne and even if she did how the hell can you work with people who do not give a damn about whether you live or die .

      Yup ,maybe if yona was a commoner to begin with and she has to struggle on her own to get what she wanted .The story would be quite different but it’s not and going on with maybe making me even more depressed about this story since i see how great material get so easily wasted .
      Ya like I said in the manga we have YONA and the others those guys don’t function as a unit yona decide others are happy to follow and obey even if they have to spill all of their blood on the way .
      Yup SW is devious and he knows what he want and isn’t afraid to get his hands dirty to get it .Yona on the other hand is living in a lie and doesn’t even know what she wants and isn’t honest with herself .
      Yup when it ends I will be sort of sad i’m sure since i like it but a long rant will probably follow on how this could’ve been way better .
      Yup ,that’s sure and the need for yona to shine is so big that the author destroyed almost all the other aspects of the manga including other characters .
      Yup for all the reasons stated yona has no reason to treat him like a servant and like you said even more since the only reason she still lives is thanks to him who helped her escape .

      Yup it’s lame to see what has become of hak .
      Oh yes you are right about that whenever hak said i’m just a servant she never bothered to tell him no you are an important person to me that’s another thumbs down for yona .

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    84. True i’m not a fan of females being like beggers who long for a tiny bit of love from a jerk male lead but i’m not either for a male lead being treated like crap because the dumb and naive female lead isn’t mature enough to move on and see how great said male lead is .The way AnY handle romance is so bad ,in NG life it was so much better .Keidai loved serena during his current and previous life and Mii had a one sided love for him but still he treated her so well and the way she started to fall for her and was the one to confess and chase after her when he realized his feelings was epic .I don’t need to explain how things are in AnY yet again ^^ So you can compare and see for yourself .
      Well I do consider manga to be a type of lit .I mean when you have a work that has a plot ,a conflict ,a villain a hero ,sutff like that i mean it can be seen as a form of lit so that’s why I’ve certain expectations when I’m reading a manga .
      And yeah for me to smile upon the yona/hak pairing i gotta see something big from yona’s part but honeslty i doubt it will happen .
      I get that but look at OP for example zoro is more badass as luffy but still luffy shine more than he does at the end of the day .Look at how both ren and kyouko shine both ,I mean even when ren seem to shine brighter she finds a way to shine even more through effort and focus .And the author doesn’t feel the need to treat one like trash for the other to shine .
      I know that but in yona’s case it doesn’t make her look cute but rather dumb and insensitive .Ya there is plenty of comedy with the dragons and hak + the jokes about sky being 34 yet still single or just his relationship with earth which is funny .

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    85. True. Well I do think that manga’s starting to change for the better in that respect. Although we still have women who are unhealthily submissive in manga, there are female characters like Kyouko and Erza from Fairy Tail who are being prominently featured in many newer shows. So I tend to think we’re getting better characters and more informed understandings of relationship issues in manga these days. But yeah, you’re right about the problem with impressionable kids seeing these characters and relationships modeled in media. Especially since it’s an exaggeration of the preference to treat women as inferior like you were saying. It isn’t far-fetched at all. The messages we grow up with often shape our understandings of normal and loving behavior more than we know.

      I could actually deal with multiple people in the story pointing different things out. I think a lot of real life relationships work that way where we need a variety of others in our lives in order to see where we’re good and where we’re not. But like you said earlier, a lot of this fussing wouldn’t be an issue if there was an overarching goal or villain we could look to. Although in fairness, I’m kind of thinking that Suwon would be more of an anti-villain (and kind of still is). It’s just that Yona’s foibles make it difficult to support her if she decides to take back the throne. I mean, it’s obviously unfair how male-dominated Kouka is, but that doesn’t make Yona the right woman to break through those cultural barriers if that makes sense.

      That’s an extremely good point about her lack of strength to back up her choices. It seems to me, however, that if she knows she’s lacking strength that she has a moral imperative to be more precise in her plans and to make a point of choosing plans that put her group the least at risk. Yun seems to do it naturally so I don’t get it. Even from a purely selfish standpoint, if anything happens to those guys she’s in big trouble. So you’d think that she’d at least try to keep them safe.

      I like that idea. Hm. I think if that’s the route they’d taken, the way to do it would be for Hak to offer Yun in exchange for a position as a guard. Jeha is already known to them as the Flying Pirate so that would raise suspicions. Hak otoh is a former general with nationwide cred for his fighting prowess. Throw in the rumors of how he killed the king and kidnapped the princess, and they could’ve painted a picture of a corrupt former official who would be an asset to their little enterprise. The dragon telepathy wouldn’t even be necessary. But I guess logical strategizing was never meant to be. :p

      Oh man. I’m still bothered by how they were saved from their own poor planning by the fiery glare. It’s extremely forced even if it’s supposedly Hiryuu that their enemies are sensing. I’m genuinely surprised that more people don’t seem to be picking up on just how contrived that was.

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    86. That’s a good point about Luffy being strong enough to back his actions. Well I think the showdown with Kizaru shows another key difference between them though. Luffy genuinely cares about his friends and we see it in his actions whereas with Yona, as we said earlier, she comes across like she doesn’t empathize with people very well. Actually I will disagree slightly about Yona’s approach. While objectively speaking she’s not accomplishing much and in a more character-driven story she wouldn’t be, I think that we’re going to see the friends she’s made during these adventures become allies not unlike what we’ll see with Luffy and his allies. Why else do we see people like TaeJun becoming starry-eyed? I don’t think it’s a coincidence that a lot of Yona’s closest friends in these arcs outside of the group have been folks who frequent high places. For the mangaka I mean.

      Yes. I don’t mind a little violence in manga, but I don’t really like to see it when it’s done against someone who isn’t a threat. Yeah. That’s why I don’t think that Hak’s death would necessarily be an improvement. Even when Yun asked Yona when she was going to thank Hak for saving her and the like, it seems like she’s still perfectly okay with seeing him get hurt because of her actions. But then again, her sense of cause and effect is…off.

      You’re right and I think it hurts the story.

      Yeah. One of the major flaws with AnY is what you said, the characters and their motivations and feelings are often neglected. I think that if the story was written while following the needs and motivations of the characters, we wouldn’t have situations like the one with Jeha defending Suwon when Hak broke down. I keep planning to start NG Life but I’m kind of scared because people were saying there were plot holes in one of the other mangas by this mangaka.

      I see her pulling it off. Not because it’s supported by what we’ve seen in the story, but because she’s Hiryuu 2.0 and she always finds a way to succeed with her fiery glare. :p

      Great observation. The thing about the kids’ deaths in OP is that it wasn’t the only indication we’d seen of the World Gov’s amorality. Even before that we were getting hints of that corruption with the marines and Smoker’s promotion, the self-interest behind the selection of their set of pirates in pursuit of a balance of powers, Lucci’s rather chilling behavior, the lost century, their incredibly sanitized protocols for using that bomb, etc. I think that the kids dying there was in many respects the culmination of the glimpses of darkness that we’d been seeing behind the more light-hearted feel in many of the previous arcs –particularly the pre-timeskip ones. Oda captures that sense of systematic suffocation perfectly IMO.

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    87. With AnY, we did IMO get foreshadowing of Kai smuggling weapons to the Fire general, but for the most part we don’t get the same sense of growing desperation about Kouka IMO (in which case Suwon could even feasibly have upgraded into an antihero) even with the human and drug trafficking. Plus unlike the World Gov where you could see that those kids were being used for a sinister purpose, the situation with the official beating a kid to death or whatever was more, like you said, about showing just how bad the bad guys were while giving Yona more resolve. After the first kid died, it also increasingly felt like an attempt to manipulate the readers into caring. IMO, because it was more the actions of villains we were supposed to root against rather than part of a larger and darker machinery, it also lacked the horror of Law’s flashback. If the mangaka really had wanted to portray the darker side of Il’s political trade-off in the deaths of kids, IMO we needed better indications of that OP-like free for all and a more OP-like build-up. And it should’ve only been used once.

      True. It’s actually that unwillingness to give up her former title that makes me think that Yona probably will decide to take the castle back. I think the phrasing in talking about not being able to Robin Hood while inside the castle, shows that on some level she thinks that the castle is where she belongs. And yeah. That was very disappointing because it seems like if she’s willing to be considerate of her father’s murderer, it shouldn’t be so hard for her to understand how the Fire tribe’s ruling methods could’ve motivated some people to turn to crime. Except I guess that she doesn’t want to.

      Yeah. It’s too bad. Man, you’re right. Do you see her getting any better towards the end?

      I suppose the group’s willingness to put up with it is supposed to make it grate a little less. But the dishonesty is rather frustrating, yes. Lol. I’m leaning Jeha because of his “tragic love” comment but Zeno does try to act his age every once in a while. :p

      That’s a good observation about Luffy versus Yona on these issues. But that’s a function of her primary need being her desire to be as good at fighting as the others.

      That’s true. Despite starting a foot or two from home base, she’ll swear she scored a homerun when this is all over I think. Part of Yona’s problem is that for her, IMO, things are coming too easily for her. If all you have to do is show up to get people who are willing to die for you, I suppose that entitlement issues shouldn’t be so surprising.

      I’m slowly coming around to your view on this. It’s surreal how they have so much talent but they’re wandering around and waiting for events to happen under a rather childish name. Suwon, for all his personal faults, has an eye for talent. Yeah. That’s actually why I thought that one way to have potentially made up for Yona’s stubbornness would’ve been to show it in a more positive light early on like Yona sneaking out of the castle to deliver soup to a servant’s sick niece or something. The Robin Hood missions look entirely too random when Yona wasn’t an especially altruistic person before.

      Normally I’d agree but I think we’ll probably see more of Yona’s friends in positions of power once the dust settles. Lily probably gets upgraded IMO, Tae Jun also gets upgraded, Earth deeply respects Hak, Wind is loyal to Hak (Yona too), and Sky is Yona’s original tribe and tends to support whoever’s in power. Idealism ftw. Smh. She’ll be relying on awful lot on her crew to govern though IMO.

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    88. That’s true. I feel like it’s not asking too much to ask for a heroine that has to work for something. Yona’s dedication to archery was a nice start, but otherwise…The setting is just so gorgeous I’m really surprised at how it’s been handled.

      Yes. It really bothers me how the dragons didn’t get a say in the matter. I hope Yona ends the dragon cycle after this.

      True. I’m not a fan of his approach and I dislike how his underestimating of Yona prevents him from getting rid of her, but you have to hand it to Suwon overall.

      I have a bad feeling I’ll be agreeing with you.

      It’s really strange because it seemed like Yona had the right balance early on. You had Yona learning to help people, characters like Hak and Yun giving Yona something to look up to while also being willing to criticize her, etc. Hak less so than Yun but I digress. I notice the regression and the sidelining of Hak in BD’s arc but it feels like Jeha’s arc is when things took a left turn.

      The ungratefulness is very difficult to swallow. What gets me is that the downgrading of Hak wasn’t even necessary for the story. All they needed to do was upgrade Yona. Hak should’ve dated or at least hung out with other women IMO. Because he’s been single and crushing on Yona since childhood, he doesn’t know how that he can demand better and he’s far too used to Yona’s behavior. Thumbs down is putting it kindly.

      I completely agree. While I suppose there’s something to be said about the role reversal since I think we’re usually seeing heroines dealing with jerk male leads, it’s painful to watch either way. I don’t generally object to a slower build-up. Like I have absolutely no problems with Kyouko’s warming to Ren, but at least in their relationship we saw a pretty decent amount of give and take even before their feelings were openly acknowledged as mutual. I’m on 212 for SB so we’ll see what happens.

      That’s true. You’re like me in that respect and I find that I often transfer my expectations for good literature onto other mediums like film and, well, manga.

      True. I’m just hoping that this ends up being pulled off in a manner that we can all live off.

      For sure. I mean, the downgrading of characters absolutely wasn’t necessary to the story and we could argue that it actually hurt the story. What you’re observing there about the author treating some characters badly to for Yona to shine is why I was wondering if the writer had become too attached to Yona.

      I agree. See that’s what I thought as well which is why I’m not sure why the author is allowing Yona’s naivety to continue indefinitely as comedy. Because, like you said, the author has proven that she can create funny situations out of other things so I can’t find a justification for leaving her like this. But yeah.

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    89. Indeed, sofia. And that's another one of the reasons why she cannot be a 'great' ruler if she easily accepts what other people told her especially if it is 'pleasant to the ear'

      True..actually, she is from that brief glance in chapter 1..that future Yona scene. Apparently, the growth is stagnant that going to the point seems either impossible or need what...a lot of chapters?

      That could be part of it. I'm just saying that here is Yona and others arrive at a impoverished village with many sick and old people..iirc, being bullied by some soldiers. So, I think it is natural for her to immediately want to solve the immediate problem so she is feeding, and stuff like that. It is their first stop after getting the dragons, right? Yes, it is charity work and seems to be for short time so I think it is okay.

      And, I think the problem is/the mangaka lost an opportunity with this and the other 'stops' since Yona fails to realize that she needs to do more than those 'charity work/band aid stuff' in fixing what her father did to make amends or uplift the people's lives in a long term basis. So, I agree that after fire, water then Kai, there is still nothing...so yes, Yona is more into 'charity work/Robin hood' thing.

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    90. I agree about the kyouko’s part but erza not so much .I mean yeah she kicks ass and she doesn’t need to be saved each chapter or breakdown in tears every single time but Fairy tail may not portray submissive women but did you see how over sexualized they are .I mean their boobs are huge and their outfits are almost vulgar sometimes .I mean it’s too much, if a woman had a chest like that her back would snap in half .Also look at erza’s armors all of them are very revealing it’s like isn’t the point of an armor to protect yourself .Like the armor she used in the magic games ,where all of her chest wasn’t covered or in tartaros arc the torture scene with kyouka ….it ‘s out of topic but i believe that FT has two main flaws the oversexualized females and the nakama powerup .
      But yeah they are capable of making likeable females like in black lagoon in OP in kuroshitsuji ,gintama and of course SB .For nice females that’s the only ones that comes to mind but I don’t to get started on the nasty females in manga because I wouldn’t stop ^^
      Ya and that’s not a good thing in life when you only have people who always agree with you because you won’t get any constructive criticism and that’s so obvious in AnY .Whatever flaws SW has at the end of the day he is more fit to be a king than she is .I understand ,I’m all for girls power but yona NO i’m sorry she isn’t cut for that position .
      True on that one she really has no excuse it makes look really dumb and selfish .I told you that one of them need to lose a part of his body for her to understand that all what she is doing is wrong .But even then I doubt she would change ,at least as long as SW is involved ,I mean if we have another situation where someone is about to attack him even if they are half dead I bet ya she will still get them to fight .
      So Am I everytime I see that so called fiery haki glare I facepalm so hard you can’t even imagine .It’s lame and really forced ,oh readers as well as characters seem to find badass .Don’t tell me why I don’t get it
      Ya ,yona may care for her harem but she doesn’t think twice about risking their lives which luffy doesn’t do never .I know that but do you think Lili has any weight in the water tribe ? Despite all what she said or others said she doesn’t you think she has the power to oppose her dad or any general ? No she doesn’t .
      Tae Jun even if he grew alot compared to the beginning and is doing good job in the fire tribe he still considered to be a joke by other characters do you think this guy will have any real power to help yona if she decide to take back the throne no he doesn’t the boss is his bro .And both his brother and Lili’s dad won’t follow a little girl .That won’t happen ,so she made friends and so called allies but no one who will be a big help in the future .The only ally she could get is wind and that’s it .
      True ,not once did I feel that Hak was someone really really dear to her heart or I felt that she was aware of how great his sacrifice is .
      Yup ,if these guys who are always together took actually their time to talk about their feelings their thoughts and that kind of stuff then the jeha stopping hak from snapping SW won’t happen and any others scenes that related to the lack of communication and focus on the characters inner feelings .

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    91. We have seen the darkness of the OP verse since the beginning and it’s getting darker after the time skip but in OP what we get is that for example doffy is evil but he is part of a bigger darkness .In Any everything that went wrong is because of the king .When an officer kills a child it’s because of yona’s dad not because his general is a bastard or lazy and useless so yeah whatever darkness is depicted it’s just meh since it is just to give yona’s resolve and that’s it .
      Ya ,and this has to do with the see only what she wants to see aspect of yona’s already flawed personality .I thought it was already obvious that she was being considerate of her father’s murder willing to work with his killer for the « sake « of kouka T_T
      I don’t think so I mean this manga won’t be 600 chapters long where you can wait for a character to grow and I’ve a feeling that if she does change it would be toward the very end and i’m not of a fan of that i’m from gradual change not sudden change because it will feel forced and rather random .
      Only on rare occasions does he act his age and not when it matters .Yup their group is united by dishonesty ,blood oath and fanboyism that’s it .
      LOL that’s true she as well as others tend to make a big deal out of what she does when in reality she did really little things .True she did not struggle at all to get her allies or accomplish the little things she accomplished so far .
      True that’s why he always wanted Hak ^^ ya no matter what you do ,you can’t excuse her flaws or her robinhood style of dealing with problems .Sw on the other hand was always shown to be manipulative so it makes sense to see how he manipulated the generals to win them over except sky which was his from the start ?
      I explained above why I didn’t think that these guys won’t have a position power in the process .Earth may respect hak’s strength but his loyalty goes to SW that’s very obivous .Fire is also loyal to SW even if yona is revealed to be hiryuu 2.0 i don’t see him back her up .Water as well that only leaves wind and even Jeha said it the generals won’t put the future of the country on a young’s girl back who isn’t strong enough to forget about her crush ^^
      Ya i would pick SW over yona as king anytime
      I guess things went wrong in the Awa arc because since then I see no character growth at all .It seems like it’s always the same thing .
      I agree even if he doesn’t have any will of his own and is just a fanboy it would’ve been nice if he was shown to be involved with other women but sadly he is fully devoted to being in her harem .
      Yup I want a relationships between two people who stand as equal like ren and kyouko where each one gives the same amount as he takes from the other .In yona she owns hak that’s all what there is to it and hak is happy about how things are .
      Honestly based on how things are after 100+ chapters I have low expectations I don’t want to be too upset with the ending .
      Ya and the same could be said about SW since he gets a fair amount of focus but yeah I get your point seeing how everybody is being neglected we can only assume that yona is her favorite .

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    92. Yup because not only is it not funny but it’s only making her look dense and insensitive
      By the way about NG life it’s pretty good manga you will see that unlike with AnY each character has his own story and feelings and the main guy keidai is just someone who brings these people together but that’s it .It has very good comedy but it also get emotional .All the characters are likeable ,the plot is nice it’s a group of people who lived in pompeii and were reborn some were males and then became females stuff like that and each is trying to find their place in modern times because they still have their memories of the past and you will see how they try to fix their past mistakes and i don’t recall any plot holes i will pick NG life over AnY anytime of the day

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    93. Yup and that’s just one of the many things she is lacking to be king .
      Ya it is maybe a flashforward and honestly with how she is i’m not too pleased with her becoming king she can make all the fiery glares she wants ,if she doesn’t have a proper growth i don’t care and like i said we are already past a 100 chapter my expectations are almost gone for her character and the over all story .
      Of course not but my problem is that she seems to think that what she is doing is gonna have an impact when that’s not the case .My problem is that she doesn’t think on the long term that’s all .
      Yup but she seems to be happy with the extent of her charity work and it never occured to her after visiting all the tribes that she needed to do more and to do so she needed position and power maybe deep down she doesn’t want to admit because it would mean face SW which she can’t do .



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    94. by the way the comment starting with yup that's just one of the many things she is lacking to be king is for KAT ^^

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    95. I agree with you about Fairy Tail’s flaws. Yeah, I’m not generally one to object to women’s clothing choices because I think that part of recognizing other women as full human beings is not imposing my standards of dress on them. I feel like it denies women the ability to choose clothing for themselves without having to satisfy the expectations of what’s likely a male-dominated society. But since we’re talking about a cartoon character, I agree with your critique and I wouldn’t consider Erza a finished product for the reasons you mentioned. I see her more as an improvement over the passive, clingy, submissive types of female characters and as a marker in the evolution of the empowered female in manga with Kyouko hopefully becoming more the norm as proactive heroines become more popular.

      Ha ha. I agree. I find that the more mature manga like josei and seinen tend to do a bit better with female characters but I think that might be because those characters are often aware of the restrictions they’re under IMO.

      True. Good to know that someone sees it how I do.

      That’s true, but I feel like the story’s left her in a corner there. She could face the consequences and see someone get hurt as a result, but at 100+ chapters it’s difficult to sympathize with that when she should’ve known better the whole time. And yeah, I hope she throws away the hairpin soon. Sacrificing the group for Suwon again when the stakes are higher will leave a bad taste in my mouth.

      The level of fangirl and fanboyism by the readers makes the fiery glare sooo much more annoying than it already was to me.

      Hm. Excellent observation. I guess that’s why despite Luffy’s boneheaded actions, he’s trustworthy as a captain. That and he’s actually pretty crafty in certain respects.

      I think you’re looking at these characters from the standpoint of what you’d realistically expect to see. The more this goes on, however, the more I think that Yona probably won’t struggle with the generals when she takes over. We’ve seen themes of girl power, we’ve seen Lily act as a toned down version of old Yona before Yona came into her life, and most importantly we’ve seen Yona cruise to victory with courage and a fiery glare several times. Plus, the narrative often punishes characters (except for Suwon to date) for going against what Yona wants like with Yun’s pragmatic decisions ending in a child’s death.

      Do I think that it’s good storytelling to do it that way? No. But I don’t think that the resistant members of the old guard will survive to the end of the story because they’ll be obstacles to Yona taking the throne and she’ll need the approval of all the generals. I think Tae Jun’s brother dies to make way, I think Water either dies or has a change of heart which allows Lily to have more influence, Wind should be safe, Earth should be safe (his wife maybe not so much), and Sky I’m on the fence about although they’re sycophantic enough that he may make it. Suwon probably also doesn’t survive on my reading though I admit I’m speculating. :D

      Exactly. I think what happened with Jeha was that the mangaka wanted to show Hak’s rage but didn’t want him to kill Suwon on the spot for plot-related reasons. Even without a long prior discussion, I thought there were other ways for Jeha to have justified his decision while staying in-character. The writing was driving the plot while ignoring the characters though. Yeah, it’s unfortunate that we don’t get to see characters communicating their feelings and thoughts. There isn’t enough conflict I think between the lives they’re living and the lives they’re leaving behind.

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    96. True about OP-verse. True. It really takes the threat out of everything and the way it’s been set up makes it hard to pull off a shadowy, darker power in the future if the mangaka decides to go that route. It’ll feel a bit tacked on.

      That’s a good point. Yet another strike against her bid to the throne.

      Unfortunately, I have to agree. I’d like to see her get better, but I’m pretty much expecting more honest admissions for her feelings for Hak and a battle upgrade at this point.

      Oh what could’ve been.


      True. Yeah. I think it does make sense. Precisely. Although I do have a hard time believing some of the generals, Suwon was drawing on what we already knew of him. Though I suppose in light of the continued selfishness, I suppose it could be said that Yona’s blinders are exactly what we’d expect…

      Honestly, I don’t think Suwon makes it out of this story. It looks like Yona will eventually “step up” and become strong enough to take the throne –albeit in rather dubious fashion. I already explained earlier why I don’t think this current table of generals will survive intact. With Suwon likely gone by the end, IMO Earth’s respect for Hak will be their inroad. Fire will probably die with Suwon IMO or have a Water-like change of heart. The new Wind general’s young enough to make it through. Sadly, this is the group who, with the “mature” Yona as Queen, will take Kouka into the future despite the well-documented problems with their strategies.

      True. I’d have liked to see who else Il would’ve had as heir (besides Hak).

      Yeah, it still feels like the stagnation started a little bit earlier than that.

      I think even just to get a sense of what it’s like to be valued by your partner. While some people do stay married to their childhood sweethearts, I think it’s good for people in Hak’s situation to have experience to get a sense of what they’re looking for. Haha yeah.

      I don’t know if Hak is necessarily happy about how things are. The scene where she ordered him to teach her the sword or when she tried to steal his weapon…he seemed upset in those. But he’s enduring so I guess in a sense he’s where he wants to be.
      I’m sure you will be because I don’t see this manga ending in a way that would convince me (and probably you) about the character development.

      I’d say that Suwon’s a close second to Yona for the mangaka, but the difference to me is that the characters around him don’t regress just so he can shine or survive. I mean, have we ever seen Suwon winning because of his mesmerizing glare? In addition, manipulation and plotting is more work than we saw going into the acquisition of allies. :p

      Yeah. I’m hoping that gets toned down eventually.

      Oh really? Cool. I’ll have to check that out once I’m done with SB.

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    97. I agree with you about allowing women to wear whatever they want .I would hate if someone were to decide for me ,but in FT it seems like being a woman =huge boods and very revealing almost vulgar clothes and that’s so wrong .But I agree I hope that in the future we will see more kyouko types characters .

      Ya but there are alot of shouen females who are as bad as shoujo heroines or even worse .
      True after 100+ chapters it make it hard to excuse her behavior or expect it to improve .
      True ,if there were less fangirls among the readers and fanboys among the character I would complain so much less but it pisses me off when something lame gets so much hype .
      Yup when push comes to shove luffy always deliver and that’s the most important thing .
      Ya you are probably right they will end up as yona’s allies seeing how everything always goes her way but not only it doesn’t make any sense but it’s also very lame .
      Well I always thought since everything goes always the way he them to it would mean that at the end he would probably die because even if it’s yona ,I don’t think she can stand on the throne as long as SW lives that would push things too far .So yeah I believe he would die and things would naturally follow but it is still lame T_T
      Either way ,the thing is at the end even if it doesn’t make sense everything will go well for yona as it has always been , no matter what others say .

      Ya and what made it so annoying is that he had to wait until he was about to snap SW neck to react and stop why didn’t he stop when the first guard was sent flying anyway I know he can’t die for plot purposes but he could’ve gotten a beating just like his men .I would’ve felt good about that ^^

      Yup the OP verse is really well written .
      I agree but when you think about it a lot of stuff in this manga don’t make sense so yeah I could easily see yona with her generals being the current ones and everything ends well .But I could see younger generals support yona .Now will they do a better job probably not but of course the manga will portray things as being amazing under her rule .A lame queen with lame generals sigh….at least SW is doing a good job as king so even if his generals are meh it’s okay but oh well you get my point .

      To me it started in Awa but she was annoying since the start .
      Well ,you said it yourself he is still there .He never set yona straight during these moments where he looked upset he told her to use him and blah blah blah so i have no reason to think he is unhappy with his current situation regarding yona .She may have crushed his heart several times but he never said stop so somewhere in his heart he is okay with their situation .
      Yup ,we have to brace ourselves for the ending because a long rant is sure to follow
      That’s true none of SW allies is made to look bad in order for him to shine and that’s good .In fact SW is more of the type to organize things in a way that he wants them to go ,then he sit back and see things unfold .But that’s really nice ^^
      Yup give it a try it’s worth it ^^

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    98. True, sofia..but then, aren't fiery glares/stares/haki, cool? Didn't Haku also pull that off when he was a kid? I guess the complaint is more on nothing much to back up those stares. It will be nice if those stares actually have a 'supernatural power' but Blue already got that one.

      Yup, she doesn't look long-term. Perhaps...it is indeed about not wanting to fight against SW.. It does make me wonder what is the mangaka thinking. Is this a story about a princess and her group doing Robin Hood stuff? So far, after everything as you mentioned, they are still traveling to who knows where. Ah wait, maybe they are doing it the Zeno-way. After that/those 'traumatic' events, Zeno just kept on wandering all over the place with no sense of purpose and I'm not sure if he had helped others like what Yona and others are doing now. So, maybe, Yona will just get a 'eureka' moment like Zeno did. I've been thinking..aha...it turns out that../what I'm doing is.. =P

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    99. sofia and holly, question. If a girl/woman wears skimpy clothes and guys gawk, whistle, and stuff like that. Is it the girl's or the guy's fault? Or, both?

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    100. Exactly when Hak does it ,it's badass because he has the attitude and skills to back up his glares yona it is just to look cool and that's lame .Yeah if that glare got an actual power ,or she herself got the skills to back up her fiery glare i will not complain you can be sure of that .

      Look at when Hak was beating up everybody and when he up against sky the way he gave him a killer glare ,the dude freaked out and hak beat him to pulp so there is no room for complain .

      Yup ,I really believe that she doesn't want a direct showdown with SW .I'm pretty sure if the one who attacked baby hak's village was someone else she would've tried to help but since it's SW ...

      Exactly the lack of a goal will is becoming more problematic I mean they have visited all the tribes so what now ? We can scratch kai from the list the dragons can't go and so there is only kouka .I'm really wondering what the author will do now ?

      Well Zeno is immortal he can afford to do that ,yona can't .So really what now ? I mean things would be so much easier if we had a set goal and destination but now right now it's really random .

      About the question ,I think it's the guy's fault .It's disgusting sometimes how those type of dudes harsasses just because they show their bare skin .But my problem with women who tend to confuse being girly /pretty/sexy with being vulgar .I mean all of the societies which let's be honest mostly male based set this standard for women which is most of the time to be a "sex object"and women always tries to fit into it and that's sad .I mean you can be beautiful without dressing like a prositute

      So I think that the guys who do that are at fault and it's very direspectful but the women as well who tries too hard to prove their femininity by falling into vulgarity

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    101. I see ^^

      That's right..and she did when it is the Kai people who were attacking. Too bad we didn't see that kind of scenario since Suwon is nowhere nearby.

      For now, I think the mangaka might be aiming for exorcism = let the past dragons rest in peace. Not sure if they will go and help her in the fight/her charity work though..she might have more instant fanboys. Will you be puking by then? =P We're not sure about her worldly goal but perhaps, Hiryuu reincarnated to finish the business with the dragons so that there will be no more suffering of the next generations and Zeno due to those dragon powers. I'm sure that is what Zeno is really hoping for so who cares if Yona doesn't know what she is doing.

      I see, thanks for your opinion ^^ Though, aren't there also women who just want to show off their asset? I'm thinking of what you said about the armor and chest and no, I haven't seen it but I assume it is revealing cleavage. So, if a woman dresses because she wants to do that and like when she bends down..should she complain that guys will indeed stare and whatever at her? Watching red carpet fashion, there are indeed some tasteful yet sexy but others just really show off almost everything. If a guy looks at that, and thinks of bad things..would it be his fault? Of course, it seems to be the same in some way vice-versa like how girls see men in underwear. Of course, that would also depend on culture on how far should one can show and people won't be bothered by it. ^^

      I'm more curious if one has a boyfriend/husband though I guess that also depends on what type one has. Is it okay for the bf/hubby that she is showing it off to other guys and they'll think of other things or, better not show it off since you're mine and I don't want other guys to think of other things because you are wearing that kind of outfit? I'm asking based on your opinion since the answer would definitely be subjective, different from person to person ^^

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    102. Yup because at that time the one in danger was SW and I guess this also shows a certain hypocrisy in her character .

      Well yeah that makes sense and it's actually an okay/nice goal but after 100+chapters i don't how to feel about this .I mean she has never shown real concern of how the dragons are born and die rather quickly .It's not like it's something she has been thinking about .But oh well i'm beyond that now depending on what the author will do my eyes may start bleeding in the next chapters .Ya that's his wish .

      Well there are women who indeed do it on purpose and even do surgery to make themselves hotter but honestly I hate that I mean if you want to be beautiful for yourself it's one thing but going to great length just to attract a man to me it's lame .Again you can be pretty and attractive without being vulgar .Also this type of women has no right to complain if she gets some nasty comment .

      Yes you can be elegant and sexy at the same time without going out half naked and being treated as a sex object rather than a woman of taste .To be honest I wouldn't blame him if thoughts nasty stuff yet it's none of his business what she wears .

      So I'm gonna say that both have a responsibility .

      Oh that depend for example my sister 's fiancé is very jealous guy and always has something to say about her clothes and they are always arguing about it .

      What I believe is that women and even men should wear clothes that make them feel comfortable but it's a shame that most of the time women believe that for them to be pretty they have to be almost naked

      Speaking or red carpet fashion

      here is what i consider vulgar http://www.sinuousmag.com/2014/06/rihanna-cfda-2014/

      here is what i consider pretty and classy http://www.glamour.com/images/fashion/2014/05/blake-lively-black-white-dress-cannes-2014-w352.jpg

      here is the armor http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/all-of-the-bloodriver-famliy/images/0/04/Erza-Scarlet-Nakagami-Armor-soul-dragneel-34603870-918-998.png/revision/latest?cb=20140702083438

      so what do you think ?

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    103. @Kat It's the guy's fault. No matter what the girl is wearing, she's still a human being. IMO pushing blame onto the woman isn't fair in these situations because the guy can control his reactions but he's choosing to treat her like an object instead. What do you think?

      Hope you don't mind my cutting in:

      With significant others, IMO a lot of pressuring the woman to cover up stems from a sense of ownership and I don't agree with that. That being said, in a loving relationship I think that you take your partner's feelings into account when you choose your wardrobe but that at the same time the significant other has to understand that it's ultimately her decision to make. Don't know if that makes sense?

      I think that most women who wear more revealing clothes are aware of the fact that others are going to look at their bodies IMO. I think objections to staring have more to do with feeling dehumanized when people automatically assume that such clothing means "she's easy" or that they can then act however they want towards her because her clothes mark her as less deserving of the respect that "acceptable women" receive automatically. We could say it's "cause and effect" to be treated like a sex object in that clothing in this culture, but I don't think it's fair to then leap to the conclusion that she deserves that. The solution IMO is to teach people that all human beings have value and deserve to be treated with dignity regardless of what they look like.

      @sofia and @Kat

      I think that there's a difference between women who wear revealing clothes because they like them and women who do it out of insecurity. Along those lines, I also honestly believe that because our clothing choices don't happen in a vaccuum, a woman showing off even all of her assets still makes a statement.

      For instance, I grew up in more conservative Christianity, where despite my denomination celebrating female pastors and women in leadership*, people nonetheless felt empowered to judge a woman's character by her clothing. This took place within the context of a situation where women who stepped outside of the boundaries the religion defined for them were denigrated, mocked, and "damaged goods" if they were unmarried and not virgins although they sort of made exceptions for rape. For those of us who come from that place of constantly policing ourselves and others, just being able to wear a short summer dress or a shirt that shows cleavage feels amazing because that power wasn't something we had before. I could totally see some women going even farther as either an expression of protest or an expression of their newfound freedom.

      While this dynamic may result in women playing into society's desire to sexually objectify them somewhat, they've been given an imperfect society to operate within IMO. So I'm very leery of characterizing clothing choices as an either/or type deal or even of assigning special moral weight to them on that basis.

      Hm. I guess maybe because I used to do quite a bit of art, I don't really get worked up over body exposure on its own. What I tend to care about is more a combo between the motives and the end result. So while I would agree that the Rihanna dress wasn't the best, I saw a model make a largely see-through dress look like art in editorial; and I wouldn't place that photoshoot in the same category that I would someone who feels the need to disrobe for validation.

      And since it's obvious that Erza's being used for fan service, I don't endorse that at all.


      Thoughts?

      * There's nothing wrong with being a Christian fwiw and lots of people are enriched for being a part of it, I'm just articulating my own experience. I understand that others experience it differently and that's fine by me. ;)

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    104. Yeah for sure. With the exception of Juvia, most of the women in FT have skills and great personalities (Erza's arc was my favorite) but they're used for fanservice which makes it difficult to laud their characters as role models. For sure.

      That's true. I'm hoping that as the shoujo heroines get more diverse the shounen females will follow suit.

      Exactly.

      Lol. It's so good to be talking to people who care about storytelling and character development.

      I think that even when he doesn't deliver (Kizaru or the situation with Ace) you never get the impression that Luffy wasn't trying his best. I at least, have an easier time forgiving failure when the protag is trying but failing.

      No disagreements there. I'm just hoping that we can at least see some profound discussion about war and the toll it takes. I agree. IMO part of the reason why Yona can't make a decision about Suwon is because I think the mangaka wants Suwon's death to be a heart-wrenching moment where he's unable to fulfill his father's dying wish and Yona's there crying buckets. I think she's undecided about Suwon's feelings for Yona and whether we'll get a tragic love story in that IMO. I really don't like that because, again, Hak deserves a partner who's not settling for him.

      At least with Hak around, we'll know that the country's in good hands haha.

      She was going for the drama. :p But yeah. They could've reacted sooner. Agreed. I could've gone for a beating as well.

      I suppose it could be, but the reason why I don't fully see that working is because those generals were indifferent to Yona's plight and I don't see that going unpunished in this manga. Well either those are the generals or we'll get the old generals with Yona's allies making moves behind the scene. I kinda like the new wind general. He's at least skilled in combat and him and his best friend are cute to watch. Haha.

      Eh...I think it's a little more complicated than that because of how Hak doesn't like to expose his vulnerabilities in front of Yona. He teases her but he usually just catches everything she throws at him whether he's okay with it or not. Obviously he doesn't dislike it enough to leave, but the fact that Yona conflicts with the things he wants to do suggests that he's not content with it IMO. Although the extent of his fanboying is rather over the top.

      No doubt haha.

      Yeah. The generals have their flaws, but at least their interactions with Suwon are more authentic. That's true and it's a real break IMO largely because authentic interactions seem increasingly rare in this manga these days. It's what you were saying about the dragons and Yona not being a true team.


      Will do. I should be in the SB threads in a few days so I'll be able to catch it.

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    105. @Holly I agree that the one who is to blame is the guy .But like I said and you said it yourself women wearing revealing outfits is playing right into the society that treats them like objects and you have to realize something that when women do that and somehow strengthen this woman =sex object sterotype it causes a lot of damage and i’m not talking about guys saying nasty stuff to them .I’m talking about women themselves those women all over the world who are insecure about their bodies either because they are fat or too thin how do you think that these women would feel knowing that in this world in order to be considered pretty you have to wear little clothes and have a certain body .

      It’s awful in so many aspects how society limited a woman’s beauty I guess and how women don’t try to change the odds by treating their bodies with more consideration since they are not meat who are there for the world to see .
      But what I really believe is that a woman or a man should wear what makes them feel good and that’s it .

      Juvia has power but she is awful no need to explain further ^^ I also don’t like lucy at all .
      I hope so because writing good females is possible really so I hope that authors would try harder in the future .
      I feel the same ^^
      Exactly and honestly most of the time I have zero problem with luffy .
      Yeah I always thought that the fact that things were always going smoothly for SW was probably a sign of him dying with yona sobbing next to him as if a part of herself just died .We will probably see her cry and cry the way she hasn’t cry for her own dad’s death .And what I hope is that if such a scene occur it would’ve been after she falls for hak and is well aware that she loves because if she doesn’t and after that she goes to hak it would feel like the guy was her second choice and i would hate that .
      That’s what I told ,that they didn’t give a damn whether she lived or died but again things most of things yona did or went through didn’ t make sense but they happened since it ‘s yona .An example of this is when earth sky and SW +other soldiers saw yona and hak no one said let’s go meet them to see what they have to say ,since he was supposed to have killed her and yet she there with him .I would understand why others didn’t but earth he doesn’t know that SW planned a coup d’état .This shows that he is a full time SW fanboy now and it would seem weird seeing him as yona’s general but it will probably happen because she gotta have all their support to be queen .Another meh aspect of the story i guess and one that will make me faceplam so hard at the end ,oh I know she will probably use the power of her glare on all of them and they will turn from SW fanboys to her own fanboys what do you think ?
      I think it’s pretty simple the guy is a freaking fanboy .He could’ve coldly told yona « do not speak of SW to me » but he didn’t he choose for himself no one forced him .Yona does indeed put him in the servant position but he is the one who let himself be in that position he could’ve left after she got her dragons but no he decide to stay .
      Ya even if he does manipulate them but they have this king and generals feeling to them they are not perfect but way better than yona and her fanboys .
      See you there ^^

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    106. I see what you're saying, but my thing is that society's willingness to withdraw respect on the basis of what women wear, is society treating women like sexual objects who exist solely to satisfy its gaze. Whether she covers up or not, she's objectified either way because the premise society's operating under is that her character boils down to how well she polices her body. Covering up to make it through is an effective survival strategy, IMO, but like I said before, women have different motivations for how they dress.

      I hear you and I agree that women wearing revealing clothes probably do contribute to self-image issues in other women, but I don't think that women are then obligated to curb their own ability for self-expression on those grounds. The thing about negative self-perception is that it can only be changed internally. Having other people bend to accommodate those insecurities will only mask the issue in women who compare themselves unfavorably to others.

      Yeah. There's a lot we can do to celebrate all body types and to let women know that beauty comes in all shapes and sizes, of course, but like I said, women are operating within an imperfect society and so they have to weigh these questions and decide for themselves if it's worth it. I don't think that wearing revealing clothing necessarily equates to a woman disrespecting her own body. But yes, society imposing narrow standards of beauty and making women feel like they have to behave a certain way is a serious problem. I agree with the mild caveat that I think knowing how to dress in a professional setting is also an important skill.

      True. ^^ I have mixed emotions about Lucy. I like Aquarius (I know, I know) and I find the situation with her family quite touching...but her main character status is so questionable.

      I'm thinking that as long as the readers show their appreciation for good females, we'll continue to see better.

      Haha.

      True.

      I really don't like that because Yona's feelings haven't seemed human. Suwon's confession at the scene of his crime and his failure to not try and finish her off also don't add up to me. It readslike authorial meddling. Yep. Ugh. I'm a little bit frustrated just thinking about her poor father. Suwon's death will be kind of sad but for the wrong reasons to me (there goes a competent strategizer and king) :p. I agree which is why I'm hoping that the tears will be less about her lost love and more about their lost dreams as a trio and the loss of her father (dreaming I know).

      That's very true. I was talking to Kat about that in the previous thread and I think that the generals either believe the rumors but haven't asked themselves why Suwon's protecting the criminal or they don't believe the rumors but haven't asked themselves who has benefited from Il's death/Yona's absence. Earth isn't interested in anything but action IMO, but I think he changes that perspective by the end of the story and his respect for Hak, like I said, bridges the gap. I think Sky also makes it through. But yeah. It'll be hard to stomach. Oh man. I know you're joking, but I could totally see the glare being used in place of skill on the old generals to show she's ready. :p

      I agree that he's where he wants to be in a sense. But the thing is, when she upsets him he uses indirect communication patterns. I mean, when she compared him negatively to Suwon or talked about Suwon in recent chapters, his responses clearly said "Stop that." I also think that his actions may subconsciously be driven by guilt as well as fanboyism after what happened with Il. So I mean, he's devoted and a fanboy but I think it's more complicated than what we see with say WD.

      True.

      I'm there if you want to talk SB. :p

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    107. Thanks for the opinion you two. ^^ I guess I somewhat think differently. Even if I would say that it is both though I would lean more on the girl being at fault because I'm thinking that most men, okay, this is kinda sexist, but they would most likely be wired instinctively for sex and those kind of stuff. It is a generalization so of course, there will be exceptions.

      We all agree that this is a flawed society and in some societies especially Western ones, tend to be more open about sex and how skimpy one would dress as opposed to more conservative societies. What is 'vulgar/inappropriate' would indeed depend on the society like showing legs is bad for some but for some it isn't.

      Nevertheless, I'm pointing out that whether dressed appropriately or not, most men would think of such things and with a 'sexually charged' society, it would be more heightened. This is a presumption so I got nothing to back it up. I do wonder if we see so many men and women treated as 'sex objects' by media, would most people get used to it as nothing or, they would still be stimulated towards sex because of it? It seems to be the latter.

      Hehe, I guess thinking of it, it also depends on what kind of guys are viewing it. For artists/doctors-type, they probably aren't that surprised about naked bodies and would 'behave' but for the ordinary person, they'll view it differently. I'm also thinking that probably wearing those kind of outfits also depends on the situation/place. I don't think any right minded girl would wear that kind of outfits when visiting slums or those type of areas.

      Also, about the Rihanna dress example, do ordinary [non celebrity] people actually wear that kind of dress?

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    108. sofia, I was going to ask about what about those who are not happy about their appearance or have low self-confidence that they want to have surgery..but then, that is also connected with attracting a guy, right? I don't know if you have heard of the story, which may be hoax, that in China, there is a man who sued his wife for adultery since the baby doesn't look like him and her/ugly. It turns out that the wife had plastic surgery.

      True..though aside from what you mentioned regarding your sister's fiance, I would think that it is also to protect the girl from the 'eyes and minds' of perverts.

      Somehow, I recall a similar type of dress like Rihanna's but of course, the chest area isn't exposed like that.

      And about the armor...it kind of reminds me of Inoue's outfit. ^^; And, you are right about it not protecting her. I'm imagining that she can be easily killed with that kind of armor. ^^;;

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    109. True, Holly, but I would think that guys are already 'wired' like that and then there is also media and stuff. Somehow, I feel that it is inevitable for a guy to react that way.

      Ah..do you mean something like a compromise between the two? So, they should go shopping together? ^^

      True, ideally. Thinking of it, I guess those who wear that kind of clothes ought to have a high level of self-confidence to be not bothered at all and 'carry it'. Hm..somehow, I wonder if I think that way, based on what I mentioned above as how it is 'typical' here. When we went to the beach resort, my sis' male friend waved at a couple of women who are probably in their swimsuits/beachwear. The women called him a pervert. It turns out that the friend has mistaken them for someone he knows. ^^;

      About this validation, do you mean she probably wear it to show off and prove that she still has 'it'?

      Curious though why do you think that shoujo heroines have to lead the way on being 'strong/diverse' for the shounen ones to follow. In a way, I guess they do try to 'interchange' at times like having a strong shoujo lead or having a weak shounen lead. =P

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    110. @Holly

      I agree that whatever a woman does she will still be seen as an object as being inferior .But by wearing revealing clothes she is just encouraging such things and you also have to realize that alot of women if not most do not wear such things as an expression of their own taste which would be okay but they do it to catch the eyes of the guys around them and that’s sad .
      If a woman wear little clothes because she likes it and she feel good with them then I’m okay but if you do it to attract attention then it’s bad .I mean wouldn’t be better to be respected and desired because of your wits and your own inner charm,personality …etc instead of being desired because you wear little clothes .
      It’s unfair that it’s women that have to watch out but sadly that’s the way things are in this world men are on top and women are on the bottom no matter how many centuries passes she will always have to prove herself ,wearing revealing clothes won’t change a thing .The only thing that could make you stand as an equal to a man and make him respect you is to prove yourself with your own work and intelligence I mean beauty will fade away one day either with age or by accident .But if you are smart and you have a strong spirit no one will take it away from you .
      This complicated ,our modern society is shallow and unfair on so many aspects .It’s seems like we won’t be able to reach an agreement on this issue ^^ but let me just say this I believe that as a person you should live in a way that allow you to live with yourself ,in a way that makes you feel good on the inside but you also have to face reality this world is unfair and true and absolute freedom do not exist ,in order to somehow coexist and like you said survive others have to compromise in order to live on .That’s what I believe i know you don’t agree but that’s the way i see things and alot of what i’m saying comes from my personal life ^^
      Now let’s go back to manga ^^

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    111. Lucy i will put it simply she sucks .Yeah her backstory was touching but overall her character is so bad .I mean the only thing that makes her better than juvia is that she isn’t a love sick idiot that’s it .She is purely there for fanservice more than any of the other girls she always has to end up almost naked always need to be saved cries no stop most of time her powers are lame just her character is a big NO for me .Ya I also like aquarius I liked how she always tried to kill lucy along with the enemies when she was summoned by lucy ^^
      Of course the reason why I hate Juvia is obvious her « love » for gray is really pathetic .I mean look at levy she likes gajeel but she doesn’t behave with him like she is brain dead erza as well with jellal .
      I hope so ^^
      Well ,I agree that losing SW compared to losing Yona would be sad for his a king unlike her but like I told we will see her breakdown as if the world has just ended when/if he dies and I would be there with my eyes probably bleeding from how pathetic the scene would proabably be T_T
      I don’ t think so ,so far yona ‘s « suffering » and « angst » and all that blah blah she think she is feeling is due to SW whom she loves and who betrayed her .She doesn’t think of her father’s death ,of hak’s suffering ,of their friendship and their bonds he destroyed .It’s alll about her and honestly if during the last chapter she started thinking about that ,it won’t make me happy because it would feel like the author is doing things in a random way .Well I already have this feeling but no if she does that i won’t be happy ,because those are stuff she should’ve been aware of ages ago .
      I might be sarcastic about the glare thing but I’m also serious about it .I mean we have already talked about how she never really acomplished something with her own two hands with her own merit shooting that dude during the awa arc was thanks to the glare .You can’t tell me she became a master archer after a few days .So winning over generals who did not give a damn about her or her dad with a glare isn’t too far fetched considering how things went so far .
      Well ,I doubt direct communication would work on yona I mean you would think seeing your dad getting killed would a power signal at least powerful enough to reach your brain but nope so hak’s indirect communication like how he was about to kiss her when she danced and left when he saw the hairpin ,maybe she would get it if he snapped and told her to knock it off and forget the guy who ruined their lives not just her life .But No honestly the more i think of it the more i understand that hak will never be considered to be as important as SW but if it happens during the final chapter then i’m not a fan of it .Just like how in VK zero had to beg yuki to be with him in the last chapter and even when they were together it felt like the only one she loved was kaname that’s just horrible .
      Oh so you are up to date with the current chapters ?

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    112. @KAT Those women would be fine if society didn’t clearly define what being beautiful means (slim ,nice hair ,nice skin ,nice chest ,little clothes) I mean just look at the women used in advertisement .You can’t tell me that those women are a reflection of the average woman because that’s not the truth .And nowdays media have such power that it pushes women into surgery ,depression ,eating disorder all for the sake of fitting into the image of beauty that society set for men .
      And like you said those women do it to attract guys ,if it was for themselves because they are not happy with their bodies and want to feel good it’s okay but to try so hard for others to accept you to me it’s sad .A woman should be confident in herself no matter how she looks because appearance isn’t the most important thing.
      Yup he doesn’t do it because he think he owns her ,he does it because he is being protective and he knows that most of the guys having dirty minds ^^
      I don’t see what’s that dress is covering ^^ also speaking of music nowdays you can sell even without having any great talent just strip and you will be okay .You know sometimes when i listen to a song and then i watch a video « am thinking so why is she naked now ? » or even the lycris ,I mean music is supposed to be an art ,yet nowdays it feels like porn .
      In modern society sex is everything and is everywhere that’s the sad truth .
      You are right it is similar to inoue’s outfit and the armor would look great if it weren’t for that strangely enough even when she is that exposed no one is aiming for her heart and almost all her armors are like that .

      Here is what I find sexy and pretty
      http://rusolclothing.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/blake-lively-cocktail-dressesblake-lively-cocktail-dress---blake-lively-clothes---stylebistro-rg6ycufd.jpg
      http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8e6QoEPZV68/Ui4h9KM9dxI/AAAAAAAAAC8/cJGZxuj8wS0/s1600/SGY-013849.jpg

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    113. oops that society set for women ^^

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    114. sofia, when you mentioned this to Holly, ' yona ‘s « suffering » and « angst » and all that blah blah she think she is feeling is due to SW whom she loves and who betrayed her' made me think of VK. @_@;

      True, and advertisement is a very strong medium among others. Here, it is more of being light-colored skinned and long shiny hair. I get irritated over the advertisements here because it is always about shampoo + dumb song and dance number about it that kept on repeating over and over every commercial break. I would think is this trying to brainwash me? =P But then, I don't watch much television anymore. ^^;

      True...corrective surgery would be okay, I think. It makes me wondering what you think about Mio. Should she have a surgery for it or not? ..that is if she has no reason to use the scar as a weapon.

      Hehe..aside from strip..having a cute face is also okay, too ^^ True, what is the dress covering...hm..do you think it is a fad? I don't watch music videos anymore..most of the time, it is what you mentioned even if the music is kind of nice.

      What!? all her armors..so there are more!? Hmm..no enemy thought of the 'weak point' at the chest part?

      I see..what about backless? What do you think of that? And I don't mean the bottom part being included =P I think backless is okay.

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    115. Ya ,I know slowly but surely it is getting there and that's scary O_o

      Ya ,it's the same everywhere and like I said the women portrayed are even the average women so what's the point showing me something i'm not .So yeah the purpose is to brainwash the viewers into buying the product to look like the model which is presented the product to brainwash us into buying more and more and trying harder to be someone we are not .I'm the same and i don't even have a TV ^^

      Yup ,if it is something you can't live with it's okay but to do it just to look "prettier" that's sad in my opinion you should always love and value yourself no matter what others say .

      Honestly ,i think mio has guts because she obviously has the means to take suregery but she choose not to and used her own"ugliness " as a weapon against those who look down upon and live her life with her head held high that's so badass .

      Neither do I ,got tired of seeing girls half naked dancing while guys throw money at them stuff like that and even if the music is nice the lyrics are lame and just plain vulgar most of the time and like i said music is supposed to be an art T_T

      Yup ,here have a look

      http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/34100000/Erza-Heaven-Wheel-Armor-fairy-tail-34126935-1146-634.jpg
      http://media.animevice.com/uploads/1/18983/306387-et90.jpg
      http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2014/017/7/a/scary_erza_blackwing_armor_by_knightwalker591-d72jwze.jpg

      Nope you would think with such a huge chest being exposed they would aim at her heart but nope

      Oh I love it ,I've a few dresses which are backless i think it looks great ,but again there are some people who think backless also includes the bottom part ^^

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    116. Indeed..and I guess the gullible, insecure, etc takes the bait.

      Yup, it is ^^ It makes me wonder if Kyouko will be shown as 'amazing' as an actress if she has a totally opposite role. Lol..even if she'll probably puke and everything over it..say a love sick fangirl-type =P

      Ya...it isn't something that one can easily sing along. ^^; It is awkward.

      Lol over the armor..they really do not cover up the vital parts. ^^; Is her vital parts in the limbs? =P

      I see...so obviously, it is fanservice.

      True.

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    117. yup

      Well ,I hope we see her in different roles ,I mean she is awsome in her villain roles but i do hope we see her play kind and gentle character and i'm sure even if she has to play a love sick idiot she will do it her own away and the result will be great .I mean look at how she played mio ,she is supposed to be insecure because of her wound yet she decided to use the wound as a tool against others .But yeah i think at least i can only hope that people/critics will realize that she is a genius actress cause that's what she is .She just need more jobs to prove herself .Honestly what if she has to play a love sick idiot ,i would love to see her play a prostitute in feudal japan who is in love with a rich man ,I know it's cliché but i believe a feudal japan setting would suit her ^^

      Exactly ,it makes me feel disgusted more than anything else .

      LOL maybe but no one even tries to aim at her limbs

      Yup ,couldn't get any more obvious

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    118. It’ so weird I could’ve sworn I posted my comment and i saw it on the blog yet there is nothing oh doesn’t matter i will just post it again .
      Well ,I agree that maybe if kyouko plays a gentle role ,critics and people in general would notice how great of an actress she is .I’ve faith that even if she has to play a love sick idiot she would do it well .I mean look at what she did with Mio ,the girl was supposed to be insecure because of her scar yet she used it as a weapon against those who looked down upon her to the point where they started to fear her .So maybe if she plays a love sick idiot she would used her love for ren as a basis for her acting and we will get something cute and touching instead of dumb fangirl which she was when she was into shou .
      What i really want to see her play is a role in feudal japan .Maybe a prostitue in love with a rich man ,i know it’s cliché but i think kyouko would look amazing in such a role what so you think ?
      Exaclty and it doesn’t really put you in a good mood at least as far as i’m concerned
      Yup no one even tries to aim at her limbs T_T
      Yup and it couldn’t get any more obvious .

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    119. It turns out that the blog thought your first post is a spam. ^^; Just noticed it now at the spam folder. ^^;;

      I see. Well, it depends on what the role wants her to do/what kind of role it is ^^ If she has experienced with it, she can pretty much easily act them ^^

      Ah..you mean at Yoshiwara? Those are usually tragic and I'm not sure Kyouko is ready for a prostitute role since she has to more or less know about sex. But, it will be an interesting role.

      Wow, no one even aims at the limbs. So, what are they aiming at?

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  4. Thank you Kat!

    I really hope the author returns to the story at hand, focusing on making Yona a powerful leader as she and her band of misfit dragons do incredible things for the people throughout the land, and pitting them in situations they have to face the usurper king. I miss the exciting story line. Personal opinion, we veered chapters ago to the backstory of the dragons and now stuff going on with the current dragons and have lost the greatness of the current-day story! But that is just me. It will all tie in together eventually I am sure. I suppose the slow unveiling of the dragons and their issues will be important to the main issue at hand soon.
    Thanks a bunch.

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    1. You're welcome ^-^

      Ya...

      Hm..tied all together...perhaps...it does seem to be more on resolving the past and present dragon issues which might be part of the reason why Hiryuu is reincarnated.

      =)

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  5. Hello! I found this site a few days ago and have rapidly devoured all of the akatsuki no yona and Ookami-heika no hanayome that I could find. Thank you, Kat, so much for all of your hard work!! I'm so excited to have found you.
    You know... rather than an issue of being pure or not, I wonder if Kija is fine because he has his own posse of malevolent white dragon spirits that have decided to support him. "Keep walkin' fancy eyed punk, or I'll curse you!" <-- something like that?

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    1. Thank you for reading and welcome to my blog ^-^

      Lol..that's amusing and that would be interesting to see ^^

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  6. Thank you, Kat!
    ~may

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  7. Thanks kat for the summary .

    ~reemy

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  8. @Kat

    I kinda thought so too but then again, Kouka seems more developed compared to many of the other countries in terms of what we’ve seen of its internal politics and workings. I completely agree that the dragons will be used for defense rather than offense. I’m sure Suwon will be involved at that point…to be honest I’m hoping Yona’s sorted through her feelings for him by then. Since I’m pretty sure that this will end with Hak and Yona as king and queen, I don’t want to get the impression that Yona settled for Hak. I think Suwon might end up biting off more than he can chew. Conquering lands, getting backstabbed, etc. Something will likely happen that brings Kouka to the brink.

    Hm. Maybe but I’m still not really convinced.

    I don’t know what it is. But I agree that perhaps she’s written in a lot of elements that she doesn’t fully know how to weave into the story IMO. It's what you said before about the mangaka maybe not knowing how to handle a sweeping epic.


    Oh I see what you mean! Sorry about that. Yes. I do think that there’s something like that going on. Where the mangaka is trying very hard to make Yona special. I still think that the praise she gets is disproportionate but yes. I think you’re right that a lot of that is because Yona’s the lead and the mangaka is careful to prevent her from being upstaged. That’s actually something I really like about how Skip Beat treats its female lead. Yeah no worries. I’m sure she’ll end up with Hak at some point since I actually think that’s Hak’s main use to the story at this point since I guess Yona can’t be romantically involved with one of her dragons. It's really late so I'm not sure if I'm reading you right. If I'm not, just say so. :p

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    1. I would think that Kai is also developed in terms of how they use 'drugs' to weaken the 'enemy state' but then, they claim to not know anything about it. As I and sofia observed, it seems that Kai people are more independent than Kouka's. Kai's rulers, iirc, are suppose to be not good but it seems that the tribe they visited are doing well except when either one of the country would suddenly want to take the land.

      Hopefully, she does. I'm not sure if it will end with Haku and Yona as queen. Hopefully, it won't be like that - she's just settling for Haku. Hopefully so, kind of karma or crime doesn't pay but so far, everything is indeed going well for him.

      Ah, that's the word, 'upstaged'. ^^ Indeed, that's for sure as evident with all those pictures of them together. The question is how and if it will be satisfying/convincing. True, that seems to be his main use at this point. You got it right ^^

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    2. Hm. I was thinking in terms of what we see of the country's internal politics, but you're right. Are we sure that was Kai as opposed to one of the rogue groups that was using drugs to weaken the enemy state though? It seems like the weak central government means that there's several different factions pursuing their own agendas as we saw with the allegiance made by the old Fire general. That's what makes me wonder if the human, drug, and weapons trafficking between Kai and Kouka's underbelly isn't being done by an ambitious faction that's seeking to fill the power vacuum left by the Kai royal family's effective loss of control?

      Hm. That's a good observation by you guys. What do you make of Kai people being independent with bad rulers and Kouka citizens struggling despite having a "better" system of government? Think it's a sign that the mangaka intends to explore that more, the idea of the will of the people determining the results of things rather than the gods or the rulers?

      That's true. I'd give this mangaka props if Kouka ended up being a democracy. It just seems like putting a new face on the same old top-heavy societal order, and a clueless new face at that, might not be enough change. It's just if it went that route Hak wouldn't have anything to do because he gave up his title and then there's how Yona hasn't moved away from her old identity even if she's been incredibly reluctant to do something about Suwon. Which is part of why I think the mangaka is setting them up to takeover. I'd be happy with a Robin Hood type ending though. ;)

      That's a relief. Well I don't know how satisfying it'll be now because I would want Yona to apologize and then demonstrate that she actually gets it rather than having Hak just forgive her because he always has. I think what's happening with his character becoming a mere love interest to me is a bit of a waste. Actually it's criminal. Criminal I say. :p

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    3. Ah, I'm also thinking about that. I actually hoped that kid was royalty of some sort. But nah, it wasn't like that. But true, it seems that Kai's government/royalty has a tight rein on its people. I forgot that it was mentioned that drug things was an excuse so, perhaps they did oppose. They also seem to have some rebel problem. In short, Kai is easy picking and Kouka just need someone to lead them.

      I think of it as, the people of Kai got fed up with their rulers so they became independent. Whereas, Kouka are 'spoiled' by them and when that is cut off, blame the king rather than helping themselves/do something about it. Thinking of it, perhaps Kouka had bad rulers for a long time for them to become like that? Hm..though that isn't a conclusive factor.

      Hm..I don't think so but it would be nice if the mangaka plans to explore it more.

      True. I see. ^^

      Indeed.

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    4. It's a shame that we haven't seen anything of Kai's royalty, although I wonder if members of the royal family can even travel openly in Kai right now. It would've been such an awesome development if Hak's mini-me were part of the royal family looking for help like Elizabeth when she was looking for the sins. Although since the dragons can't leave Kouka (seriously, that is so tragic), Yona's ability to help would've been limited.

      That's a good point about the differences there. Do you mean Kouka having bad rulers for a long time or Kai? Of course, the thing about Kai is that I think we've only seen the border towns. Those would've been the areas left fending for themselves during the worst of the military conquests from Kai's perspective. Though why Kouka's border villages didn't learn anything from the Kai ones is rather perplexing.

      True.

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    5. That's true. In a way, isn't it like the mangaka limiting the scope of her story like the setting has to be only in Kouka. Well, I cannot say that it would have been better for her not to limit it when she is already having trouble with such a large cast and there are too many unexplained things. Somehow, I think that some things are deliberately vague since the mangaka hasn't given much thought for it yet and she can 'make things up' later on.

      Kai having bad rulers so I thought the people decided, let's quit depending on them and just depend on ourselves. In a way, for that tribe with mini Haku, they can either be Kouka or Kai..whoever the ruler is..it really doesn't matter and what matters is they are always caught in between. And true, we only know that is how it is with border villages and we won't know what really happens within Kai itself.

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    6. Good point. I think you're right that she's limiting the scope and that she's doing so deliberately. I think you're right about the mangaka being perhaps undecided about certain details and so she's giving herself room to work in that respect. I'm still very skeptical about whether it'll be possible to pull off though. And that's a good point. It may not be a loss where we're concerned.

      That's a good point about Kai's rulers. The situation seems so unstable over there that it would make sense for the residents to take matters into their own hands. Excellent point. I think that up until Il they were a part of Kouka at one point weren't they? True. While the creativity of the border towns is notable, I can see the more urbanized areas going either way. I can't see the dependency being Fire village levels of bad, but the people in the large cities might be more dependent on the rulers of their area because they need the stability to generate regular income.

      Though I suppose that's more of a symbiotic relationship than a dependency...hm...what are your thoughts?

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    7. Ya..well, we'll see later on if she can indeed pull it off.

      Indeed. And for the 'bad guys' of Kai, they depend on the things that they know - kidnapping, selling drugs, alliance with a rebel, etc. It is like, they are on their own and it will depend on their own ways on how to survive.

      Indeed. True, and ideally, it should be like that. I guess it depends on how much does the ruler of the area contribute/cause trouble to the people of that area. Do they want to improve the place or think that it is their 'right'/they are the ruler so everyone does what he says? For Wind, it seems like everyone is family. For Fire, he's boss so everyone obeys. I'm not sure of the current general. For Water, slightly hands off policy but will move if the general wants them to. I don't know about Sky since his people are also under the king. For Earth, they adore him even if he is kind of a bum and I guess they are satisfied with him. So, only Fire and Water tribes are quite more dependent on their rulers. What do you think?

      And, speaking of stability, wasn't it more or less stable during Iru's time? I mean, there is no war. Since Iru doesn't seem to be a 'bad king', I wonder how much he actually knows about his own kingdom. Except for Haku, is he in good terms with the other generals to know what's going on in those tribes and the country in general? Was he just too busy pampering Yona? But then, they used to have general meetings so what the heck are they discussing there. Are they hiding things from him since they want him to be replaced by Yuhon or something by making him fail? = conspiracy theory.

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    8. True. Hopefully it'll come to a good end.

      That's true actually. Are you thinking that rather than a legitimate clan, we may be dealing with organized crime not unlike what we saw with Ogi(?) in the kidnapping of Yona chapter?

      That's true. Well, I was thinking more of Kai since that's a country that appears to have some powerful clans, some weaker clans, and an incredibly weak royal family. But I think you've summed up how the different generals in Kouka operate. There's plenty of room for generals to rule with their own personal flair now that you mention it. It'd be interesting to see if Hak would've been able to be Yona's bodyguard if he'd been a general for Fire. If we're right about grandpa being a caretaker for Wind, it seems like maybe the free time of the generals depends on how much their tribe is willing to do in their absence? I was thinking maybe that's how Sky is able to accompany Suwon all the time as well?

      Yes. Like sofia and I are saying upthread, Il would've been able to preside over a prosperous era if he'd had more support from his generals because it was quite stable. I suspect that a lot was hidden from Il, but at the same time Il appears to be quite shrewd. He knew enough to want Hak near Yona IMO and even though we don't see much direct evidence of it, the generals appear be quite adept at politics and they would obviously be hiding a lot from each other and the king. A conspiracy would make sense in some respects because things like the disappearance of the priests and the death of Yona's mother suggest that someone wanted to oust Il. The only thing is that a lot of what led to the dysfunction could also be seen as the natural extension of the generals being disappointed about Il and then having that passive aggressive resentment grow after learning about Il's decision to ban war. What's your take?



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    9. Cannot say for sure but I'm thinking that most likely, there might be a ruler/legitimate clan and it just so happen that there is organized crime but probably in stronger hold than that other group since they are already 'working' abroad/outside their country.

      Good point. So for Sky, it is probably the adviser who is in charge. Hm..do you think that the position of generals depend on the king or it is assigned by the general..or at least, recommended by the general? I would assume that Haku was recommended by his grandfather. Ah wait, the one who succeed him is just by choice..forgot if it was Haku or the grandfather. Fire was chosen by Suwon. So, for Water..could Lili be the next one or it has to be a male? Earth don't seem to have kids yet. Sky is single. If they got killed in war/die, who would be the next general?

      Honestly, I'm not sure if it is okay for them not to be in the tribe that they are ruling..but then, the generals who are in their tribes aren't doing better than the ones away from their tribe. ^^;;

      I think it goes back to that 'they love and want war as their livelihood' theory. So, grandpa chose Iru to the dismay of some generals like Fire, Sky and Earth. Fire..not sure if he hated Iru or it is for his personal ambition. Wind is okay with it. Water is unknown but most likely, going with the flow. Iru gives away land, make peace treaties, and stuff like that which is 'submissive' for the proud Kouka who is probably not used to be in that kind of position. Hence, they seem like a weakling. Then, this and that had happened and this is the outcome.

      When we think of it like this, it is understandable that they are glad that Iru is gone and who cares about him. The new king is going to bring us to our past glory. I'm not sure if what happened to their respective tribe was deliberate or not for the people to kind of blame Iru's rule for their hardships though. So, with that premise, it is understandable that Wind isn't too happy, Water is still going with the flow, Fire is a special case and the other two are happy with how things are going with Suwon.

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    10. Yes. I think something like that would make the most sense. From what we've seen of the legitimate Kai clans, I think that there's probably an organized crime group also involved.

      Hm. I find the adviser to be a little bit questionable tbh but he seems to be passionate about cleaning out corruption. I think maybe the position generally passes down through inheritance but that the general can choose their successor. The wind general after Hak didn't appear to require Suwon's approval to take office, but I think that the king can override or select a new general if for some reason it's necessary like we saw with Fire.

      Have we seen anything that says the general has to be male? Lily might get there after the great battle IMO. In the case of Earth I wonder if perhaps a high-ranking subordinate would be next in line? I wonder how come Suwon didn't end up as Sky general. While he obviously would've been too young to step in right away, it seems odd that this Sky, as Suwon's former caretaker, wasn't acting as regent until he became of age. But I imagine they'll just do what they did with Sky and find the current Captain of the Guard. I think Sky survives to the end of the story though. :p

      That's true lol.

      Hm. I agree. So are we thinking that some of this, shall we say, hasty rush to war is Kouka wanting to recover from its bruised ego so to speak? Yeah that would make sense. I think that Fire was pinning the consequences of his decisions on the king. He had plenty of reasons to do so since the Fire villagers were clearly unhappy with their lot.

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    11. Yup, that seems to be how it works.

      I'm just assuming that it is the same with the how things work in royalty. Yona wasn't considered. I'm not too sure how far would Water let his daughter do those kind of things so it might be a possibility. sofia calls her Yona v2 so I somewhat do not really consider it especially if she were to 'grow' in the same pace as Yona. I also would think that a 'general' has to be a 'warrior'. Of course, in Iru's rule, I think it won't be a requirement. But then, it might be possible.

      Good point. Sky still ends up being his bodyguard. So, generals like Sky and Haku are part-time bodyguards. ^^;; Ah, so who put Sky to become Suwon's caretaker/bodyguard? I really hope that it isn't Iru. That would be a major blunder if he knows/suspects that Suwon is up to no good. He automatically gets one general at his side. Why do you think Sky will survive?

      You know, I just thought of something. Maybe Wind sided with Iru is because they value their people and would rather not send them to war. What do you think?

      Yup, most likely. And, probably tell them not to mess with Kouka anymore since we got a new king. Indeed.

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    12. Yeah. I think there's some similarities but it's also a little bit different. I don't see Water staying the same by the end of the story though. IMO he either changes or dies. That's a good point but I think it largely depends on how Yona intends to handle the country's identity after taking over. If she were to make the generals more administrators while making war a national matter, Lily could make the cut. What do you think?

      Also, do you think that before Il the generals were allowed to wage their own wars? If they were all doing that, that would explain why they were always able to recognize who the strongest generals were and also why Kouka's on such bad terms with everybody. Thoughts?

      Well Sky was Captain of the Royal Guard iirc while Yu-Hon was Sky General. I got the impression that Sky acted as a caretaker of sorts for both Yona and Suwon when they were younger but that Sky became general after Yu-Hon's death and Hak became Yona's bodyguard. I think that's about right? I'm thinking that Il knew Suwon was no good but that Suwon would've been a little bit older before those suspicions would've crystallized.

      I think he survives because we've met most of the major players in this story except the sword, and we haven't seen anyone who could replace Sky. Sky doesn't appear to know that Suwon killed Il and Sky felt sympathy for Yona even when he knew he didn't need to. So all in all, I think Sky redeemed in the end though the mangaka might prove me wrong. What do you think?

      That's very possible. I think that Wind, or at least grandpa, must've shared some values with Il in order to hold the entire royal family in such high esteem. As we saw with like, Earth, being king doesn't guarantee respect from the generals. Even less so in the case of Yona when we look at the difference between how Tae Jun treated her and how he treated her father in the same scene IMO.

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    13. True.. hehe..is that so. I think so, if it is more on administrating rather than the need to go fighting. And, perhaps, her father might teach her something about it upon seeing how eager she is to do something.

      Possible. I mean who were the ones Hiryuu and others are fighting against? If supposedly, he is from fire tribe, so either it is Kai so they heard about the dragons and below it is Sky tribe and Wind tribe. It depends if the other tribes are already in Kouka or perhaps, it is just a small fire tribe and they won against the other tribes. They need rulers so get them generals who in turn get more land for it to become how it is now?

      It also depends on how weak the enemies are for the generals to wage their own wars. And what you're thinking is most likely possible since they are called 'generals' right? So, it shows that it is a military-type of government.

      Ah, is that so. True..most likely, that is how it happened.

      I thought Sky knew he killed Iru that is why he mentioned this:
      http://mangafox.me/manga/akatsuki_no_yona/vTBD/c092/26.html

      That Suwon is throwing everything away. Strange, Sky is saying that Suwon is to unite the tribe and protect from invading countries but they are the ones invading. And, Haku says that it is to take lands. Is Sky being duped, too? Or, that is a mistake. Well, if he doesn't know, and what he told Suwon in that scene is true, perhaps, he can be redeemed.

      True, and in a way, don't you think that it is because Iru is 'too nice/lenient' that they are treated like that?

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    14. That might be a development as well. The only thing is that I don't really see Yona taking over with most of the current Generals still in power. Do you think something like that would still be possible or...?

      Hm. Good question. I don't think they've done much other than say that all of the surrounding countries are war opportunists. I thought that maybe Kouka started as more unified because the dragons were supposed to be the originators of all the tribes after they split up. So I don't think that this current system is the one Hiryuu was working with. But I think that what you're thinking about the generals getting more land until the current situation is very reasonable.

      I imagine that if it was like the situation with Kai, where the generals are able to conquer the villages and grab more land, the enemies would've been variable but still manageable for one of the generals to manage. You're right. I think maybe the military-type government was the natural consequence of the dragons being the original tribal leaders and then choosing their own successors. Sky, to me, seems weaker than the other generals besides maybe Fire but in perspective Sky's an incredibly strong man in his own right. You know? So I think it was like that.

      Hm. I see. So I guess there's a fatal flaw in my theory. :p IMO you're right that he knows. Good point and I think that nationalism may be blinding Sky to the reality of what's going on somewhat. Hak (and us) know that Suwon's trying to regain the conquered lands, but Sky seems to think that he was supporting Suwon for the good of the country. Even if he does know, as long as he's not lying about his motives, I think redemption is possible for him. Like I said, we haven't met anyone who can replace him and his sympathy for Yona gives the mangaka room to leave him there.

      Possibly. I think that contributed to the issue, but I mean, Il's father ruled like the country felt he should and Il was still disrespected a lot even when he was a prince. So I think that there's a certain amount of variety there because some tribes are stronger allies of the royal family than others IMO. What are you thinking?

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    15. Currently, based on her current status/personality, etc, no. I think there is still that major problem we have to address before thinking that far...does Yona want to take over? ^^ If she wants to, then, somehow, I guess she'll change towards achieving that goal. Hehe..I got low expectations so...

      Hm..were they the originators of the tribes? I think their tribes are more secluded and smaller than the elements tribe. And, they are also not exactly found in all different tribes, I mean, the dragons should be at least near one element tribe. They also 'lay low' after Hiryuu died so..I don't think so.

      Hm..if the generals conquer lands on their own..what would Sky conquer when it is right in the middle? Could it be that they are just caretaker/for defense? Also, do you think Hiryuu is kind of like Iru? Based on the flashback, they are the ones being attacked and they aren't attacking other people. So perhaps, after many generations, the ruler got fed up with it and decided to go for 'offense is the best defense' which somehow led to a lot of military expeditions. Hm..do you think that Iru and his father was somehow influenced by the priest that they should go back to the 'old ways' = no more fighting and just be on the defense? So, Yuhon drive them away but his father still chose Iru.

      I cannot say..we haven't seen Water fight yet. I guess based on what he said during the meeting, he seems 'weak' but when pushed, beware.

      True.

      It seems that way. It seems to most likely rely on whether they like the king/how he rules. Though, if that is the case, that means, the general's successors are chosen by their predecessors rather than by the king. I mean, if given the choice, wouldn't the king choose the general he wants and most likely be loyal to him? It is better to have all of them in the 'more or less' same level of being allies or else, it will cause trouble. You know..others might get jealous and stuff that they might easily align with the enemy to get what they want. Of course, we don't know for sure if it is really like that or just in Iru's rule.

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  9. Thank you for the summary of this chapter! This manga gets better and better...

    Hahaha... I, too, was hoping that it would have something to do with the dark dragon (Hak's background) or some dragon foe of Hiryuu. Hak's an orphan, he couldn't have possibly dropped out of nowhere. Because I had read NG Life (by Kusanagi Mizuho) few years ago, I couldn't help but imagine that Hak must have been a beautiful, kind, but somewhat tyrannical lady and Hiryuu's (Yona's preincarnation's) consort in his past life. And how awesome it would be to have all the dragons be his (or her?) vassals at times...

    In one of the former chapters, Zeno had mentioned something about Kija unknowingly persuading the restive souls of his ancestors (the previous hakuryuus), who were on his back. I believe that those souls and Hakuryuu's strong will are currently protecting him. Jae-ha, on the other hand, is slowly being overpowered. Spirits on one's back are symbolic for possession.

    I guess that they want to use Zeno's body as a vessel for their souls and not as an object to unleash their powers on. However, they fear being bound eternally to his ever-regenerating body and end up being trapped instead of emancipated. Or maybe, you are right; they just need some soul/body that can be quashed with seiryuu's power.

    Although it was supposed to be something serious, I presume, the mood of this chapter was rather jovial. Kija had called upon a meeting on Shin-Ah's rebellious stage... Yun was cooking when the dragons had gone missing... there were jokes of him being like a mother... Yona and Hak had their little moment in the cave...
    It felt like the threat was all over when it was revealed that the problems were created by the old seiryuus.

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  10. Thanks for reading, Apurva ^-^

    Ya..though it seems that in AnY, it is only Yona who was reincarnated and no one else were. ^^; So, I guess they don't have any 'regrets/unfinished business'.

    True, that is quite likely the reason.

    Ya..that part seems to be a bit vague. In a way, I think it is both..or perhaps, just the ambition of that one blue dragoon.

    Yup..so it made me think that this arc is more on 'everyone having fun' type of arc and not part of the serious arc. Kind of like a 'break' from the serious stuff.



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  11. when is the next chapter coming?

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    1. It is out..summary will come out within a few hours if there is no interruptions on my side, kazim.

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